The 44th President Obama!!!!

[TISH1124]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 I totally understand that But my argument here is that saying that the poster didnt face discrimination like colored people do is "incorrect" is ridiculous. I know some white people who have faced even more or worse discrimination than a lot of colored people i know. I also know colored people who have faced higer levels of discrimination. I am in no way trying to take away from the biggoted levels of discrimination that black people face. It makes me sick.. Ive gotton into so many heated debates and passionate arguments with dumb ass racist people that Ive been brought to tears over it. Anyone on here who knows me knows I view life in the ultimate highest regard- and for people to put down another person based on their skintone is so horrible that it makes my stomach turn. However my point was--Everyone's life is different... and it's unfair to generalize someone's hardships as "worse" or "easier" based solely on the fact that they may be black or not.

"Colored People" I'm done! Can't even read anymore after that statement.

 

[AdlersMommy22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by concertina There is a culture of systematic racism and discrimination in this country. So no, unless you are a person of color, you really *don't* get it. Thats not saying that you'll never face discrimination, but it is not inherent in the system. When you leave your town and go elsewhere, people don't know you're Catholic and the daughter of the cop. When a person of color goes elsewhere, that racism and discrimination follows them EVERYWHERE THEY GO. Be they low income or high; that doesn't matter to the bigoted people who only see their skin color. There are quite a few articles and books out there on white privilege. The gut-reaction to brush it aside or say 'thats not me' is strong. But I think everyone should take time to think about it.

Totally 100% agree with you. My only point here was that the one word "incorrect" generalized without even KNOWING about the posters life that she had not faced the same or worse levels of discrimination as a black person. Maybe she did- maybe she didnt. Of course the type of discrimination was different because she's not black... but in all reality, a person is a person- and someone can be hurt just as badly for being discriminated against for being black as they can for anything else in this world.

 

[AdlersMommy22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TISH1127 "Colored People" I'm done! Can't even read anymore after that statement.

Im confused- the original poster's statement said "colored people" or "people of color".... Is there a problem with that statement?

 

[FullWroth]

Depending on exactly where in this country ones lives, white people can experience systemic racism too, it's just a hell of a lot more rare and it usually doesn't last after they get out of that situation. White kids in predominantly black, asian or hispanic schools, for example - I'm pretty sure we've had a few of them (or at least their parents) venting here in the past, uncertain what to do or how to deal with it and keep their kid safe.

And to be fair, if AdlersMommy can choose to move to another town where her being a single mom/Catholic/whatever doesn't bother people, can't a black person getting a lot of crap just move to Africa where the majority of people are black too? I'm not seeing a mass exodus here. If the magic bullet is just to move, there shouldn't be a single black person LEFT in any country where they face discrimination. I understand the point about the rest of it, that you can't tell on sight exactly what she is and blahblahblah - I'm disagreeing purely with the assertion that she can just move. 'Cause if she can just move, and it's so easy to just move, then so can black people, right?

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TISH1127 "Colored People" I'm done! Can't even read anymore after that statement.

Just for reference, that's not an offensive statement in many countries outside of the US. Obviously the poster is American and is probably not using it in the same context that someone from another country might, but there might be some Specktra members who don't see the offense.

ETA: In the US, the term carries connotations from segregation that it doesn't in other countries.

 

[FullWroth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Stargazer* Just for reference, that's not an offensive statement in many countries outside of the US. Obviously the poster is American and is probably not using it in the same context that someone from another country might, but there might be some Specktra members who don't see the offense.

Yeah, good point. I know in Russian, "black" is actually the offensive term and "negro" is the correct word to use. I had a hard time talking to my mom when I was little because I'd be trying to tell her something about the "black people" and she'd be like "NEGROES, NEGROES!"

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullWroth Yeah, good point. I know in Russian, "black" is actually the offensive term and "negro" is the correct word to use. I had a hard time talking to my mom when I was little because I'd be trying to tell her something about the "black people" and she'd be like "NEGROES, NEGROES!"

Oh my god, do not even get me started on the things that my mother says that are TOTALLY offensive in the US but mean completely different things in the UK. Or the things that I said, having learned in the US, that caused my Mom to go ballistic because they are super offensive in the UK. It's a minefield!

 

[AdlersMommy22]

I feel like the PC term changes so friggin much. Im sorry if it offends you but i have a crap ton of black friends who it DOESNT offend so.... I dont know lol. I dont know if im suppoed to cater to each individual person's preference of what. Im sorry but Im not racist... and I dont mean anything I say racist... and only in the context of this discussion am i even using the term "colored people".... because we're obviously using it to distinguish in the context of the discussion.

Outside of that- to me.. a black person is American. I dont see a need to distinguish. Personally.

ETA- my bad. I guess I should say ... a black person living in American. If someone is living in Britian than you're Britian. If someone is living in Austrailia then you're Australian. Canada-Canadian. Got it??? lol!

 

[blindpassion]

To add onto the post above me,

For the sake of this discussion, because in the context of our conversation we're having to distinguish between multiple groups of skin colors, what - in everyone's opinion - is the right thing to say, if colored people is taken as offense?

It's not like I'd say "oh, look at that person of color" in my daily life - but in the context of a discussion I need to be able to distinguish for the sake of clarity and forgive me for being so ignorant but some of the only non-racist terms I know seem to be perceived as racist... so help me out?

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Guys, I wasn’t gonna get involved in this thread but then I noticed something. Reading this thread made me realize that though Obama got elected as president, there is still a huge racism problem in the US, much bigger than I thought.

I read all this that ppl say that if you’re white doesn’t mean your life is perfect …. I’m not black myself but I am a minority and though I haven’t experienced racism in Canada, I have faced it elsewhere (in Europe because ppl thought I was Arab and in the US because ppl thought I was Latina and I’m neither of the two). I can understand as a minority though how hard it must be for black folks in the US. Like Addlersmommy said that her life has been difficult coz she’s a single mom…, so imagine all of that and on top of that she were a minority. Saying that white folks also experience unfairness in their lives doesn’t make the discrimination against black ppl go away. I think it would help if at least everybody acknowledged that the racism problem is alive and tried to fight it together as opposed to keep comparing the problems of white folks to that of black folks.

OK, I get off my soapbox now. I don't even know if I made a lot of sense, it made sense in my head though....


This thread has been highly informative for me

 

[carandru]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 I totally understand that But my argument here is that saying that the poster didn't face discrimination like colored people do is "incorrect" is ridiculous. I know some white people who have faced even more or worse discrimination than a lot of colored people i know. I also know colored people who have faced higer levels of discrimination. I am in no way trying to take away from the biggoted levels of discrimination that black people face. It makes me sick.. Ive gotton into so many heated debates and passionate arguments with dumb ass racist people that Ive been brought to tears over it. Anyone on here who knows me knows I view life in the ultimate highest regard- and for people to put down another person based on their skintone is so horrible that it makes my stomach turn. However my point was--Everyone's life is different... and it's unfair to generalize someone's hardships as "worse" or "easier" based solely on the fact that they may be black or not.

O how I would love to get away from the issue of race in this thread. Can we discuss what we think of the policies or something? *sigh*.

Anywho, I felt the need to interject a little here. I cannot speak for the original poster of the comment, but I will say what I took from it.

You are absolutely correct. Everyone's life is different and you can't really generalize and say that anyone's particular discrimination and struggles were harder or easier. However, I do feel that you can say they can be different. So a person who is not a "person of color" may not fully understand those differences in discrimination faced by a "person of color". Just like I may not fully understand the discrimination you face as a Catholic or a single mom b/c I am neither of those things.

To me, this does not have to suggest that one's struggles are easier, harder, better, worse, etc than anyone else's struggles. It can literally just mean that they are different, which IS ok. Yet, I feel so many people are quick to view it as some type of attack (on all sides) as if the other person is trivializing their experiences and this is not always the case. Then it does turn into who has been wronged the most, which YES is ridiculous. But I think its completely fair and legitimate to accept that people have different experiences in life and I will never be able to understand some of those differences.

But to be fair, I have run into more people than I like who think that their particular group has CLEARLY faced the worst discrimination possible and how dare you suggest otherwise?!?! Good luck w/ those folks.

 

[hotmodelchiq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by concertina There is a culture of systematic racism and discrimination in this country. So no, unless you are a person of color, you really *don't* get it. Thats not saying that you'll never face discrimination, but it is not inherent in the system. When you leave your town and go elsewhere, people don't know you're Catholic and the daughter of the cop. When a person of color goes elsewhere, that racism and discrimination follows them EVERYWHERE THEY GO. Be they low income or high; that doesn't matter to the bigoted people who only see their skin color. There are quite a few articles and books out there on white privilege. The gut-reaction to brush it aside or say 'thats not me' is strong. But I think everyone should take time to think about it.

Thank you, you took the words RIGHT out of my mouth... there are things you'll NEVER understand until your in someone else's shoes... and you cant speak for everyone only for yourself... we aren't making this up. do we need to get over it? yes... is it hard?... yes. Now I love white people lol but there are certain advantages you will have over me... You weren't born with 2 kids that was a decision you made I didn't choose to be black.

In 2008 there are still sad and serious cases of racism... The skin heads planning the attacks on black people... I mean come on to kill 88 people by beheading and shooting... and they only chose those potential victims because of the color of their skin... So imagine the FBI didn't catch those guys planning to kill Obama and they managed to kill 88 blacks... the ONLY reason those people would have been chosen was because of the color of their skin... not because of how many children they had or religious beliefs.... skin color is very powerful no matter what your ethnicity is... now how many white people have been killed for being white in America? The only instance was Nat Turner's Slave Rebellion in 1831!!!!! It may piss you off but its true point blank period.

 

[ClaireAvril]

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Originally Posted by hotmodelchiq Something I do with my students that many teachers dont do is I find out the cultural backgrounds of all my students and we have multicultural day every 2nd Friday of the month with food music and other things that are relevant to each childs culture!

Amen to everything you said..

and the multicultural day is a fabulous idea!! We used to have multicultural weeks in highschool where anyone who wanted to form a group could.. they made a presentation and usually had a group of dancers - it was always entertaining and it allowed people of the same background to meet each other and work on something together in a positive way.

This allows children to be more understanding of other cultures and appreciate each other's backgrounds.
Too bad we all aren't exposed to that.

Teachers are the best people in the world!!!

c

 

[hotmodelchiq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindpassion To add onto the post above me, For the sake of this discussion, because in the context of our conversation we're having to distinguish between multiple groups of skin colors, what - in everyone's opinion - is the right thing to say, if colored people is taken as offense? It's not like I'd say "oh, look at that person of color" in my daily life - but in the context of a discussion I need to be able to distinguish for the sake of clarity and forgive me for being so ignorant but some of the only non-racist terms I know seem to be perceived as racist... so help me out?

um I think "minorities" or "minority" is the most PC

 

[ClaireAvril]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullWroth Bingo! And *whose* black history are we talking about, anyway? All I ever really see during black history month is black AMERICAN history, sometimes with some South Africa thrown in just to emphasize the OMG APARTHEID. What about all those black people in like, every other part of the world? Kenya is not Nigeria is not South Africa is not Egypt is not England is not Haiti is not Jamaica. It's not like black people just didn't exist until slave traders found them (which is an incredibly dangerous racist slope to be treading on - did black people not have a culture worth teaching until those nice white and hispanic people gave them some? REALLY? think so?). They had their own assorted cultures, and they still do, and yet we know next to nothing about them here. When's the last time anyone even heard a mainstream news story about Africa that wasn't about something horrible happening there? I like history. I love it, in fact, even though it's an unholy mess once you really start looking into it. White, black, asian, hispanic, I love your history. It rocks. Even the parts you're really embarrassed about (I'm looking at you, Third Crusade). That's why I want it integrated rather than divided up by month. If a black dude invented something, I wanna learn about it when I'm learning about the white dude who invented something, not on a special month when it's finally okay to mention the black dude. His skin color shouldn't be the defining factor of his worth to history (look! look! a black guy invented something!) - the fact that he was a freaking genius should, and both black AND white kids should be able to look up to him.

Black history month is recognized in Canada too and there are many celebrations about Canadian black history..also looking at history around the world. I have never seen black history month here labelled American Black History Month. I am sure everyone around the world celebrates it and recognizes it in their own way.

OMG this is ridiculous.. no one said that February is the only time you can recognize black history month.. you can do it whenever you want - if you want. You're making your own argument and your own limitations. No one is trying to limit you but yourself.

 

[FullWroth]

Um, actually, it's NOT true. A lot of white people *are* killed for being white in America. Who exactly do you think angry disenfranchised minority members take their rage at "The Man" out on? Puppies?

Whites don't have the monopoly on racism, nor on hate crimes. We ALL have a very active contingent of crazy-ass racists among us who just wanna play the blame game. It's just unfortunate that the news media decided that black-on-black crimes and white-on-black crimes are worth publicizing, but any other hate crimes are just sort of ignored, except when they're the token charity case of the month (I'm pretty sure gays still get attacked with some regularity, but I don't really see it in the news a whole lot either).

No ethnic group is innocent here; to suggest that white people in America aren't the victims of hate crimes is flat-out delusional. No group of ANY kind is innocent. White people ARE killed by black people for being white. Black people ARE killed by white people for being black. Jews are killed by Christians for being Jewish. Catholics are killed by Protestants for being Catholic. In India, Hindus and Muslims clash in distressingly violent ways, and it goes far beyond personal one-on-one violence and into community vs. community violence.

This is, depressingly, also something that unites us all.

 

[FullWroth]

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Originally Posted by ClaireAvril OMG this is ridiculous.. no one said that February is the only time you can recognize black history month.. you can do it whenever you want - if you want. You're making your own argument and your own limitations. No one is trying to limit you but yourself.

You're still completely, utterly missing the point. Yeezus. I will try, one last time, to get you to understand, because you appear to be having a completely different debate with me than I am with you. I'm going to put it in the simplest terms I can manage.

There SHOULD NOT BE a black history month. It is STUPID and SEPARATIST to single black people out for one month of the year and then ignore them the other 11 months. There should be ONE, UNIFIED history curriculum, with black historical figures right alongside white historical figures. ALL YEAR ROUND.

This is NOT about what people choose to do in their own free time, which you seem to be repeatedly, perhaps deliberately, ignoring here. If *I* could celebrate black history whenever I wanted to, why can't you? Why do you need a national month for it? What makes you so damn special exactly?

Black history month is, in fact, primarily for educators. It's not about CELEBRATING black history but about LEARNING it, because it is sorely missing from the regular history curriculum the rest of the year. It tells the educators that in that month, they *have* to cover black history. This is a ridiculous idea, as if black history doesn't matter the rest of the time, and it's something you have to force teachers to do just to get it into the curriculum, because of course you can fit an entire racial group's history into 20-some days, right?

Black history month is a little tiny inadequate (and dare I say, occasionally racist, depending on how both black AND white people sometimes approach it) band-aid on a great big gaping racial wound and it sends a contradictory message to students. "Blacks are equal to whites! Okay, February's over, let's get back to studying white guys."

 

[AdlersMommy22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by carandru But to be fair, I have run into more people than I like who think that their particular group has CLEARLY faced the worst discrimination possible and how dare you suggest otherwise?!?! Good luck w/ those folks.

My point exactly.

everyone faces discrimination... everyone faces hardships... I wish we as a nation could all stop focusing on who has it worse and instead focus on how we can make it better for EVERYONE. I cant deal with the "poor me im ____ so i have it so hard in life" crap. Grab your life by the balls and make it what you want it to me. Obama clearly did.. and I think we should all look up to him for overcoming racial discrimination (because im sure he did) and making his life FANTASTIC.. not only for himself but for his two little girls who are going to be able to learn first hand that there really are no limitations in life as long as you are strong enough to overcome ANY barriers that are put in your way. This goes for EVERYONE.

 

[ClaireAvril]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullWroth You're still completely, utterly missing the point. Yeezus. I will try, one last time, to get you to understand, because you appear to be having a completely different debate with me than I am with you. I'm going to put it in the simplest terms I can manage. There SHOULD NOT BE a black history month. It is STUPID and SEPARATIST to single black people out for one month of the year and then ignore them the other 11 months. There should be ONE, UNIFIED history curriculum, with black historical figures right alongside white historical figures. ALL YEAR ROUND. This is NOT about what people choose to do in their own free time, which you seem to be repeatedly, perhaps deliberately, ignoring here. If *I* could celebrate black history whenever I wanted to, why can't you? Why do you need a national month for it? What makes you so damn special exactly? Black history month is, in fact, primarily for educators. It's not about CELEBRATING black history but about LEARNING it, because it is sorely missing from the regular history curriculum the rest of the year. It tells the educators that in that month, they *have* to cover black history. This is a ridiculous idea, as if black history doesn't matter the rest of the time, and it's something you have to force teachers to do just to get it into the curriculum, because of course you can fit an entire racial group's history into 20-some days, right? Black history month is a little tiny inadequate (and dare I say, occasionally racist, depending on how both black AND white people sometimes approach it) band-aid on a great big gaping racial wound and it sends a contradictory message to students. "Blacks are equal to whites! Okay, February's over, let's get back to studying white guys."

How bout you respect people when you're talking to them? There is no need to try to belittle anyone.
You have your opinion - I have my opinion we are discussing it and there is no reason to start with insults.

If Black history month is so inadequate then why don't you just ignore it and let the world go on without you? Or if it is not being recognized enough open a book, go get a teacher's license and teach black history @ your local highschool.

Maybe where you live people bring up black history in February and maybe depending on who you are or what school you go to... but definatley not here.
The education is not being only recognized for 1 month then being ignored.. for the rest of the year. They are creating a couple of schools in the GTA geared towards black studies, there are museums, clubs, galleries, and studies in universities that are geared toward black studies. I do agree the level of black history education in schools is not equal to what is being taught now. But does that mean eliminate BHM?

I see that the low current level of black studies in your schools - so how about you speak to your local school board and tell them your thoughts?

If people in schools mainly talk about the birth of Christ in religion class (if they have it) or not at all during the year except for Christmas time why don't we eliminate Christmas?

Maybe to you black history month is just for educators.. its not just solely education for me - it is to remember what has happened in the past, what is happening now and what will happen in the future. To reflect on all those who sacrificed and who battled for their freedom and respect.

 

[Nox]

Oh. Goodness. I knew there was I reason I avoided this section in a while.

Well, I've just come to pay my respects, and say "Woo for Obama!" and "John McCain gave a gracious concession speech like a gentleman."


"Nox" was here. ;;Leaves Thread Quietly;;