Tomb of Jesus- Found? Not Found?

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tash
And if Jesus was proven to be just a normal person, commotion WOULD ensue. The biggest business in the world would go bankrupt. Yes, some people wouldn't believe it, but the majority of Christens, specifically Catholics, aren't as steadfast in their religion as they used to be. There would be a world uprising. Remember, more people have died in the name of religion than for anything else. Another Crusades would ensue.

World uprising? I think your giving too much credit to people's willingness to die. Yes some people are willing to die in the name of their religion, but most just think thats insane. Religion doesn't hold the power that it once did.
 

Tash

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
World uprising? I think your giving too much credit to people's willingness to die. Yes some people are willing to die in the name of their religion, but most just think thats insane. Religion doesn't hold the power that it once did.

It may not in America, but it does in many other countries. And you don't give enough credit to the Vatican. They have the largest army in the world. 2.1 billion people in the world are Christian. That's 1/3 of the world population. If even 10% of them uprise, that's 210 million people. That's more than 6 times the whole population of California.
 

Hawkeye

Well-known member
They may be Christians but you are failing to realize- there is a huge difference between branding oneself as being a Christian and actually truely being one.

The difference?

The ones who are a Christian will be the ones who will go out and fight. The ones who claim they are but are not- well they are the ones that are going to turn tail and run.

That being said-

now take 1/4 of the 10% of the 1/3 of the world population (which you stated as 210 million people) and you will have the ones that will truely be upset. That's 52.5 Million

that's not really that big.
 

Tash

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye
They may be Christians but you are failing to realize- there is a huge difference between branding oneself as being a Christian and actually truely being one.

The difference?

The ones who are a Christian will be the ones who will go out and fight. The ones who claim they are but are not- well they are the ones that are going to turn tail and run.

That being said-

now take 1/4 of the 10% of the 1/3 of the world population (which you stated as 210 million people) and you will have the ones that will truely be upset. That's 52.5 Million

that's not really that big.


It's still bigger than the whole population of California. And you still fail to realize how many people overseas are devout Christians. China itself has the largest population of Christians than any other country in the world.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tash
It's still bigger than the whole population of California. And you still fail to realize how many people overseas are devout Christians. China itself has the largest population of Christians than any other country in the world.

And what exactly are they going to fight with? Sticks and stones lol?

Civilian populations dont have any power in the world anymore. The days are long since past where things like the American Revolution can succeed in any developed nation with a advanced military army. About the best thing you could see would be a terrorist style attack like we see in Iraq.

You know what would happen if a civilian army grouped up together 52 million strong in any sense that threatened the nations with real military power? You'd see 52 million bodies.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye
They may be Christians but you are failing to realize- there is a huge difference between branding oneself as being a Christian and actually truely being one.

The difference?

The ones who are a Christian will be the ones who will go out and fight. The ones who claim they are but are not- well they are the ones that are going to turn tail and run.


Who are they fighting again? And what are they uprising against. If anything it would be against the Vatican for lying to them.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tash
It's still bigger than the whole population of California. And you still fail to realize how many people overseas are devout Christians. China itself has the largest population of Christians than any other country in the world.

And you really think the people's republic of china is going to allow a large standing army of "christians" in it's borders?

The only crusade your arguing is a pesants crusade. And that was just another one of the church's failure during that period of time. Your forgettig the crusades were a huge failure. They were back when they first happened, they will be again today.
 

Hawkeye

Well-known member
Quote:
Who are they fighting again? And what are they uprising against. If anything it would be against the Vatican for lying to them.

Whoever pissed them off I guess.
greengrin.gif


Raerae is right on this one. (Not the part of the vatican) but regarding that populations mean absolutely nothing in a big uprising. Nothing.

Look at the uprising to legalize illegal aliens. They have the numbers but---- so what?

China (an example given) again- china is not going to stand idly by and go " Oh wow look at the big up roar of Christians"

and nobody is forgetting about the people overseas. I actually included that in my figure.

I guess it just all boils down to how strong are you in your faith and are you ready to defend it.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye
I guess it just all boils down to how strong are you in your faith and are you ready to defend it.

I think the majority of people would rather just go to work the next morning, kiss their kids, and see their husbands in the evening.

And probably still go to church on Sunday.
 

Tash

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
And what exactly are they going to fight with? Sticks and stones lol?

Civilian populations dont have any power in the world anymore. The days are long since past where things like the American Revolution can succeed in any developed nation with a advanced military army. About the best thing you could see would be a terrorist style attack like we see in Iraq.

You know what would happen if a civilian army grouped up together 52 million strong in any sense that threatened the nations with real military power? You'd see 52 million bodies.


You don't think that the Vatican has plenty of weapons? Honestly, do a little research about it and you'll find they have many interesting things hidden down in the Catacombs and various other places. They can't even put a dollar amount on most of their possessions because they're priceless. You don't think that kind of power and money can buy anything they want? I'm not saying a world upheaval would happen, but it's definitely possible.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tash
You don't think that the Vatican has plenty of weapons? Honestly, do a little research about it and you'll find they have many interesting things hidden down in the Catacombs and various other places. They can't even put a dollar amount on most of their possessions because they're priceless. You don't think that kind of power and money can buy anything they want? I'm not saying a world upheaval would happen, but it's definitely possible.

"priceless" is only as valueable as someone is willing to pay. And while i'm sure they could get several million dollars for pieces of art and such. Compared to the billions the US for example has spent on Iraq, it's really not that much.
 

Tash

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
"priceless" is only as valueable as someone is willing to pay. And while i'm sure they could get several million dollars for pieces of art and such. Compared to the billions the US for example has spent on Iraq, it's really not that much.

The Catholic Church, without it's pricless pieces is worth over $150 billion (only counting current assets and property and buildings). Their net income after all costs each year is around $20 billion or so.

And if they sold their art and all the artifacts in the Catacombs, they could make billions more.
 

Life In Return

Well-known member
It is quite interesting to see how this whole thing turned out. Even non Christians were wondering how James Cameron possibly thought that he could pull that farce off. Every year, around Easter and Passover, it's something. People always want to make Jesus out to be a lie, a made up person, a myth, liar / lunatic / legend, but regardless of the attempts, Jesus Christ is Lord, and is the only Lord, and the only way to God the Father. Everyone wants to get to heaven, but few believe in hell. Everyone wants to get to heaven, yet no one wants to meet the requirements. People think they can live how they want not realizing and thinking about the fact that one day, they will stand in front of a HOLY God and have to answer for every single thing they did, visible or hidden. Unless Jesus Christ is Lord of your life, you don't have eternal security. The only was is through Christ. There is no life apart from God and no salvation apart from Christ. People want to make up their own gods because they are so much more convenient, but such is the nature of man -- selfish. None are good, none are perfect, none are sinless. People get mad when Christians say Christ is the only way, but we should be glad God even provided a way! And Christ is not just a Christian's truth; He is THE truth.

People can't even find out who Anna Nicole's daughter's father is, but they think they have found the bones of Jesus. Crazy.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tash
The Catholic Church, without it's pricless pieces is worth over $150 billion (only counting current assets and property and buildings). Their net income after all costs each year is around $20 billion or so.

And if they sold their art and all the artifacts in the Catacombs, they could make billions more.


Sources... Your faith alone isn't going to make me believe you know about the churches finances.
 

Tash

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
Sources... Your faith alone isn't going to make me believe you know about the churches finances.

Google "worth of catholic church". Plenty of sites pop up with the $150 billion figure. Obviously nobody knows exactly how much the church is worth.
 

Tash

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Life In Return
It is quite interesting to see how this whole thing turned out. Even non Christians were wondering how James Cameron possibly thought that he could pull that farce off. Every year, around Easter and Passover, it's something. People always want to make Jesus out to be a lie, a made up person, a myth, liar / lunatic / legend, but regardless of the attempts, Jesus Christ is Lord, and is the only Lord, and the only way to God the Father. Everyone wants to get to heaven, but few believe in hell. Everyone wants to get to heaven, yet no one wants to meet the requirements. People think they can live how they want not realizing and thinking about the fact that one day, they will stand in front of a HOLY God and have to answer for every single thing they did, visible or hidden. Unless Jesus Christ is Lord of your life, you don't have eternal security. The only was is through Christ. There is no life apart from God and no salvation apart from Christ. People want to make up their own gods because they are so much more convenient, but such is the nature of man -- selfish. None are good, none are perfect, none are sinless. People get mad when Christians say Christ is the only way, but we should be glad God even provided a way! And Christ is not just a Christian's truth; He is THE truth.

People can't even find out who Anna Nicole's daughter's father is, but they think they have found the bones of Jesus. Crazy.


What if I don't believe in eternity. Or heaven in hell. What if I don't believe god exists at all?

Oh and I don't want to go someplace I don't believe in.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Life In Return
It is quite interesting to see how this whole thing turned out. Even non Christians were wondering how James Cameron possibly thought that he could pull that farce off.

What if it's not a farce, and the real tomb was dicovered, and just written off as a farce by people too obsessed with believing in faith, to acknowledge the truth? As I said earlier. We'll never conclusivly discover the truth on this matter, because even if it was discovered, there will never be enough proof for the skeptics.


Quote:
Every year, around Easter and Passover, it's something. People always want to make Jesus out to be a lie, a made up person, a myth, liar / lunatic / legend, but regardless of the attempts, Jesus Christ is Lord, and is the only Lord, and the only way to God the Father.

Why do Christians always want to make jesus out to be a truth, a real person, savior / saint / son of god / way to salvation / lord / only lord / only way to God the Father?

I think you'll find most non believers dont deny that Jesus existed. I'm sure some where some time, there was a man named Jesus and he was involved in a new way of thinking. Which was threatening to the people currently holding power, and resulted in his death.

Quote:
Everyone wants to get to heaven, but few believe in hell. Everyone wants to get to heaven, yet no one wants to meet the requirements.

I think you give the benefits of your faith to much credit. As someone who personally doesn't believe in heaven, I'm not trying to get into it.

Quote:
People think they can live how they want not realizing and thinking about the fact that one day, they will stand in front of a HOLY God and have to answer for every single thing they did, visible or hidden.

If all of us, regardless of having a proclaimed faith, will have to stand in front of your Holy God, I'm confident that the fact that because I have led a positive life, helped people when I can, and haven't caused harm to others, and dont hold malice in my heart towards any other individuals, will stand for much more than professing a faith out of fear of not measuring up.

Quote:
Unless Jesus Christ is Lord of your life, you don't have eternal security. The only was is through Christ. There is no life apart from God and no salvation apart from Christ.

Salvation from what? For those of us who dont spend our lives working for death, living here is already Salvation. Perhaps Were already in Heaven?

Quote:
People want to make up their own gods because they are so much more convenient, but such is the nature of man -- selfish. None are good, none are perfect, none are sinless.

Many people didn't have a choice as to what God they believe in. The ONLY reason you believe in christianity, is because your were born into a christian family and raised that way. Had you been born to a family in any other part of the world, the odds are against you that you would be Christian today. Your only Christian by chance.

[quote'People get mad when Christians say Christ is the only way, but we should be glad God even provided a way! And Christ is not just a Christian's truth; He is THE truth.[/quote]

What way did God provide to all the families living in this world who have never been exposed to your Western Religion, if Christianity is the only way? Perhaps, God, in his infinite Wisdom, realised that because of how different everyone in the world is, that they would need different ways to reach him.

Thats reeks of Pride to me. To think that you, would even claim to know what God thinks. How vain of you to tell others that the way God showed you to get to heaven, is the only way. To not even consider that perhaps he has already shown others a different way. If indeed as you yourself said, all roads lead to God,

Quote:
one day, they will stand in front of a HOLY God

Then perhaps the road you walk, like my road, is just the road less traveled?
 

Hawkeye

Well-known member
Weapons? In the catacombs?

Guess we know where the WMD's went
tong.gif
ROFLMAO
greengrin.gif


Seriously though-
You can have all the money in the world the net worth etc but unless you have the grass roots people actually caring about it and backing you up - you really have nothing.

I mean I think your argument, is pretty dead. I don't think it's possible for there to be a huge movement or upheaval about it.

Tash said this: Quote:
What if I don't believe in eternity. Or heaven in hell. What if I don't believe god exists at all?

Either way there is one certain fact- biologically you will be in the ground and be eaten by worms OR if you get creamated your ashes will either be scattered somewhere or stuck in a jar. Or if you die at sea you will be fish food

Either way it doesn't really matter what afterlife one believes in but you do know that you do have that truth.

and raerae, why attack Life in Returns belief? You know she's not doing anything just stating her opinion on this topic and didn't get off topic such as we have.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye
raerae, why attack Life in Returns belief? You know she's not doing anything just stating her opinion on this topic and didn't get off topic such as we have.

Wasn't really as much of an attack, as a response to the, "Holier Than Thou" undertone her post had.
 
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