Tomb of Jesus- Found? Not Found?

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Many people have different views about what a Christian is, however the bible is quite clear on this point. Let us first explore what a Christian is not.

I think it's nigh impossible to explain what a christian is. There are so many variants, and each believes they are more correct in their interpretation than the former.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Actually my implication was that poorer/unsophisticated (to use your words) people are more likeley to believe in an organized religion. I can explain the difference between organized and unorganized religion if I need to, but I think it's fairly obvious. I'm not talking about lack of faith. I thought I was fairly clear about that in my previous posts, apparently not. And, I'm sure, there are numerous people who are more than willing to defend their chosen faith. Islam, Catholicism, Christianity, Mormonism (ok, maybe not Mormons...but that's another story...), etc. There are people of pretty much every faith on this board, as you said, but perhaps, just maybe, many of them are tired of being ridiculed and vilified online by people who have no intention of ever seeking faith. Again, this isn't about faith. Perhaps again that is why your confused, as your on a totally different subject. Faith response, since you brought it up. I question people on their beliefs, not to vilifie them, but to attempt to better understand the inconsistancy in everyone's beliefs/ideas. The only thing people of faith can agree upon is that their belief is the only correct one.

The inconsistency is there because we're all people with free will.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae I think it's nigh impossible to explain what a christian is. There are so many variants, and each believes they are more correct in their interpretation than the former.

A Christian is someone who has asked Jesus into his or her heart, genuinely and sincerely.

I can't point to anyone and say "OMXZZZZ you're NOT a Christian or You ARE a Christian" because no man knows the heart of another.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Well, its purest sense, a Christian is a follower of Christ. How you choose to follow him or what it means to follow him is another story.

 

[Shimmer]

Indeed.

 

[Lady_MAC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae How about extract his DNA, and then clone him! Imagine what would happen then, if the "son of god" was cloned lol. I mean surley God himself would have something to say about that.

Made my night.

And BTW, I am a Pastafarian.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark Well, it's purest sense, a Christian is a follower of Christ. How you choose to follow him or what it means to follow him is another story.

I personally follow the Sandal.

Monty Python reference =p

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer A Christian is someone who has asked Jesus into his or her heart, genuinely and sincerely. I can't point to anyone and say "OMXZZZZ you're NOT a Christian or You ARE a Christian" because no man knows the heart of another.

Plenty of christians judge other christians though. You yourself judge the Mormons

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Plenty of christians judge other christians though. You yourself judge the Mormons

Mormons aren't Christians, despite their protestations to the contrary. Any Christian faith doesn't follow a polytheistic Godhead, but that's another thread entirely, and one's enough for now.
And, just because someone does something doesn't mean that what they're doing is something they SHOULD BE doing.

 

[Hawkeye]

I gotta agree with Shimmer there - and that's hard for me to say because I have some friends who are the most wonderful beautiful people in the world who are mormons.

But they are not "Christians" or viewed upon as "Christians" by many "Christians".

I think thought that the newer form of Mormonism is closer to Christianity than the fundamental Mormonism which is just a bad thing it's a mess (I once dated a fundamentalist mormon and let me tell you- we're talking some F-ed up stuff). I mean you really truely get astrocized ostracized if you should start thinking for yourself.

But the way that mormonism came about is Joseph Smith was the founder. who found some sacred tablets and i guess translated or something the Book of Mormon.

But one of the more obscure things that they believe is that the Archangel Michael had sex with Mary and that's how Jesus came about. That is one huge indiscrepancy with the Christian faith who believe that Mary was a total virgin and suddenly theres this baby in her womb.

Another thing is that they say that Gabriel (the other arch angel) showed up to Joe Smith and revealed to him the law similar to Moses to restore the church of Jesus and what not and is constantly growing. While Christians believe that the scriptual canon is closed.

Another one is the Trinity. Christians believe in the Trinity where as Mormons believe in there being 3 different Gods. Christians don't believe that at all- we view the trinity as one being and only one being with different forms.

They also teach that one day we can all become Gods through atonement of course. Here's where it may get confusing. With Christianity when you die you don't become a god. You die and you go to heaven and you worship God. Have a good time do whatever it is you do in heaven. You do not become a God.

Another thing they believe is that Christ and Lucifer are brothers brought into the spiritual realm through the spiritual father and all his goddess wives. This is a huge deal breaker right here. There is no way in the Christian belief that we would accept this. In the Christian belief lucifer was an angel a good one too- an angel of light and then he started getting cocky wanted to be better than God and God was like - WTH? No way b*tch and then kicked him out of heaven. If nothing else Lucifer was more the employee then the brother.

But those are just a few "fundamental" differences and Christianity really because of those things does not veiw the LDS as an extention of the Christian faith.

Now you are probably going to say- well ok what about the protestant religions etc blah blah blah you all never get along etc- well this is the difference:

The Protestant and Catholic church have this in common: There is ONE God, We believe that Jesus came to save the world through divine conception, and that Jesus died for our sins and rose again on the third day (blah blah more more) and then we believe that the only way to God the father is through Jesus Christ.

All the other stuff- that's docternal stuff (EX: Politicial stuff of the church) but they all believe that common truth.

Mormonism they do not fit in because they do not believe in the "common" truth. Therefore they are not considered Christians though they claim they are. Same with Johova witnesses.

That being said- My belief is (and again, I'm a Christian and I do have native American beleifs)-

God takes into consideration all things. He knows them he knows whats going on he knew what was going on etc so only HE is the one allowed to judge. We can slightly judge but there is no way I'm going to tell one of my mormon friends that just because I don't agree that they are Christians they are going to hell because it's not my place.

 

[Shimmer]

The Mormon/Christianity thing is a huge issue for my brother and his wife, since she's Mormon and we're not, but yeah. You gave a pretty basic rundown of their beliefs.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

But one of the more obscure things that they believe is that the Archangel Michael had sex with Mary and that's how Jesus came about. That is one huge indiscrepancy with the Christian faith who believe that Mary was a total virgin and suddenly theres this baby in her womb.

Wow, I thought that was one of the few things that really defined Christianity. Very interesting. I never did that much reading about Mormons. Some of that stuff sounds lke Greek mythology.

 

[Hawkeye]

Yeah-it's really really strange once you get into the actual docterine. A lot of the LDS churches don't like for people to know that they really do believe that Michael had sex with Mary. And it's a very obscure reference that not many members actually know either.

The more you read into it (and I'm not talking about scratching the surface, I'm talking about delving into it and reading the docterine, the book of mormon, the stuff Joe Smith wrote about etc) you begin to realize just how strange it really is.

I almost wonder if he had some peyote or something when coming up with this stuff.

But you know that's another reason why I get on to a lot of the girls on here that you must absolutely must know what you believe or you aren't going to know what you believe. I actually brought some of this up to one of my mormon friends and she got so angry at me just refused to talk to me telling me she couldn't believe I would bring these false allegations against her religion then she started reading the docterine......

It's kind of scary once you think about it. People can easily be mislead. And it's not that I think she was mislead but I think she would've been a lot better off knowing what she was getting herself into then be able to make an informed decision.

 

[Shimmer]

A really really great book is Mormonism for Dummies.


Oh, and sometime, google the Lamanite Project, and dig deep.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye It's kind of scary once you think about it. People can easily be mislead.

This happens very single day, on almost every topic. To be fair, a lot of people simply dont have the time and energy to research every nook and cranny of whatever it is they are belonging to.

 

[Hawkeye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae This happens very single day, on almost every topic. To be fair, a lot of people simply dont have the time and energy to research every nook and cranny of whatever it is they are belonging to.

That's whats so scary. Because that could get them in a lot of trouble. I mean in the "spiritual" religious arena unless you know what you believe you can very easily be mislead and reveal that you have no clue what you are talking about. That's happened many times on here. Or you can start second guessing your beliefs.

I have always told my friends to never get into a spiritual argument with me because I would be able to tear them to peaces, chew them up, spit them out and have them wondering what they believe and I'm not the only one. I only do it to try to get people to start thinking for themselves others they aren't like me they do that to really actually pull you away from your beliefs.

So you have to know about what your standing up for.

As for everything else- and not having time to research etc it can get you in a hell of a lot of trouble. The best answer I have is - and this comes straight from my best friend who is a cop when he pulls people over and they start saying " I didn't know" - his response is always the same

" Ignorance of the law is no excuse" and he still gives you the ticket.

And that's how life is- you can get yourself in a situation because you didn't "have time" or you didn't have the "energy" to research it and then the situation isn't the best it's actually pretty bad---

well ...

Ignorance is no excuse.

And you still have to pay the consequences. *shrugs*

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye And that's how life is- you can get yourself in a situation because you didn't "have time" or you didn't have the "energy" to research it and then the situation isn't the best it's actually pretty bad--- well ... Ignorance is no excuse. And you still have to pay the consequences. *shrugs*

People join organizations or groups or whatever for many reasons, above and beyond the "core values" of a specific group. Is that bad? Or just a symptom of the human condition to want to belong to a group, rather than be alone?

Some are born into them. Some join them because they were persuaded to attend by a friend, and enjoyed the people they were spending time with. Some people join a movement or group to support friends. Like when I went Vegan, and did the vegan lifestyle, I did it not because of my objection to eating meat or because I believe in the values of the movement, but because it meant something to my best friend, and I cared enough to support her ideals. Others marry into them, and change not because they believe, but because it's expected of them.

I agree that yes, if your a staunch supporter, and also trying to convince others, then yes, you should be very sure you understand what your talking about. But if your just along for the ride, ignorance is bliss.

 

[Hawkeye]

Quote:

People join organizations or groups or whatever for many reasons, above and beyond the "core values" of a specific group. Is that bad? Or just a symptom of the human condition to want to belong to a group, rather than be alone?

As long as they know what they are getting themselves into- then I have absolutely no objections whatsoever.

But if they are doing it to just be apart of a crowd or fit in then I have the objections.

The example with your friend and you turning vegan I would assume that you did infact research it- not with paper but with your own head and heart and you probably felt that you did want to support her. Could you defend that? Yes. Simply because of friendship and you admitted you didn't do it because of some moral reasoning but out of support. That- I have no problem with.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye The example with your friend and you turning vegan I would assume that you did infact research it- not with paper but with your own head and heart and you probably felt that you did want to support her.

Actually it was more like,:

Her, "I'm not eating meat anymore, it's gross, and I dont like how they treat the animals."

Me, "Um, ok."

Her, "Will you do it with me, to help me keep on track?"

Me, "Um, ok."

Her, "Oh... And i'm not buying leather, or using any products that are tested on animals, so we can't buy those anymore."

Me, "Um, ok."

Her, "Cool, thanks RaeRae, your the best."

And that was that. Obviously during the time I was a practicing Vegan, I did more research on the topic, for the simple fact that I was curious about it, and has never really thought about it.

It didn't take long however, for my habits to go back to where they were once I moved to a new city. As remember, I did it for her, not for myself, and I didn't want to disapoint her. Granted after that expierence, I no longer eat red meat, and dont really have any inclination or desire to ever eat beef or any other red meat again. But thats because thats my choice, and the only way you'll remain faithful to an idea, is if you want to be.

Edit ~ I have thought about going back to Lacto-ovo vege though. Only because I still dont eat meat all that often, and when I do, I never feel great afterwards.

 

[Hawkeye]

interesting....

but good because meat isn't especially great for ya anyways. *shrugs*