Vegan couple sentenced to life over baby's death

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer It's reasonable that during the summer when my kids are outside in the swimming pool, I watch them, and yes, play with them. It's not reasonable to walk away and let them sink or swim on their own.

Somehow i have a hard time believeing that you have never stepped away from line of sight of your kids for a minute or two. Thats all it takes for someone to drown... Or stick their finger in a socket, or hundreds of other dumb things kids do that can/do cause them to die.

 

[Shimmer]

Like I said, your logic is fallible.
Reasonable measures would have prevented the death of a newborn who was otherwise healthy (based on the assumption that an autopsy was performed and presented to the jury).
Reasonable measures, had they been taken, would have prevented the parents from being deemed responsible for the death of their child.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Like I said, your logic is fallible. Reasonable measures would have prevented the death of a newborn who was otherwise healthy (based on the assumption that an autopsy was performed and presented to the jury). Reasonable measures, had they been taken, would have prevented the parents from being deemed responsible for the death of their child.

And you think life in jail is appropriate for this?

FYI I'm not escusing them from responsibility. I think some form of punishment/service is necessary, just not life, I find that excessive in this case. And a waste of tax dollars/prison space.

 

[Shimmer]

Absolutely, I do.
However, be realistic for a minute and consider it's highly unlikely they'll actually serve life in prison.

 

[GalleyGirl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae People are dumb Shimmer. What can yah say. But again, is life in prison for this couple really a good use of our prison system? Vegan Person in Jail to other inmate - What are you in for? Jail Inmate - Mass murder, rape, and eating babies. You? Vegan Person - I'm a dumb parent. Jail Inmate - Please don't hurt me!

I actually agree with you. Jail is for murderers (I consider this case accidental death, not murder), rapists, robbers, drug dealers, people who commit fraud, etc.
In a perfect world, these people's sentences would be forced sterilization and a ban on them ever adopting or child rearing again.
So to sum it up - yes these people are horrible individuals who deserve punishment, but life in jail does not fit the crime in my opinion.

 

[Beauty Mark]

For the people who are against a life sentence (I'm struggling with that one myself, actually), what do you think is a reasonable sentence for these people?

 

[MiCHiE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark For the people who are against a life sentence (I'm struggling with that one myself, actually), what do you think is a reasonable sentence for these people?

Soy Milk and apple juice. An eye for an eye.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark For the people who are against a life sentence (I'm struggling with that one myself, actually), what do you think is a reasonable sentence for these people?

I've already given several examples of better ways to "teach them a lesson" in this thread.

 

[Beauty Mark]

For life?

 

[giz2000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Absolutely, I do. However, be realistic for a minute and consider it's highly unlikely they'll actually serve life in prison.

Totally agree on both points made here

 

[GreekChick]

As Raerae put it, they should have been charged with involuntary manslaughter.

And just to add to the topic, this is just going to add more weight to the the whole anti vegan/vegetarian lifestyle argument. As if it weren't bad enough, more people will hear this story and think all vegetarians are crazy people, and can't feed themselves or their children if they're life depended on it.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreekChick As Raerae put it, they should have been charged with involuntary manslaughter. And just to add to the topic, this is just going to add more weight to the the whole anti vegan/vegetarian lifestyle argument. As if it weren't bad enough, more people will hear this story and think all vegetarians are crazy people, and can't feed themselves or their children if they're life depended on it.

lol so true... soon as you say you dont eat, even RED meat (even if you eat other meats) people think your nuts lol...

 

[NutMeg]

I don't know how familiar all of you are with babies, but three and a half pounds is so intensly emaciated, even for a newborn let alone a six week old. I have no problem with home birth, no problem with alternative feeding, no problem with not doing the regular doctors checkups (provided you have a clue as to what indicates your kid is in trouble), but there is no way in hell that you could look a three and a half pound baby and think it was ok. No way. Ever. I don't object to their lifestyle. I object to the fact that they were too fucking ignorant to tell that their child was starving to death. Don't give me this crap about how they did their best and they didn't know any better. Go look at a picture of a six week old that weighs three and a half pounds. You wouldn't even have to be familiar with the human species to tell that the kid was dying. I suppose in the letter of the law they shouldn't get life in prison, but it is so incredibly upsetting to me to think about a baby that malnourished, not because nourishment wasn't available, but because his parents couldn't be bothered to find out about how to care for their child, and failing that, to notice when he was dying.

 

[xbrookecorex]

I agree with you completely. Perhaps Im taking the unpopular stance here, but they didn't do it on PURPOSE, it should not be labeled MURDER. It was an accident, not something done maliciously. Jail time isn't going to do a darn thing because they're not any type of menace to society. This is rediculous, a life sentence. Christ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Most families also have their kids born in a hospital. They delivered their baby at home. It just sounds like they were uneducated on the issues of childcare, or trying to live a, "natural life" or whatever. And had a tragic accident. I still dont believe life in jail is appropriate though. It's sad, but infant mortality happens, be it because of parental mistakes, or other factors. I just think it's really harsh to throw this type of a sentance on the couple. There probably already suffering from losing their baby. They really dont need life in prison on top of that. It's not like they drowned their kid by holding it's head under the water, or whatever, like some Moms do. Look at all the ways baby's die because of "accidents." You could leave a window open on a summer night, and they baby could catch a cold and die. Toddlers fall into swimming pools, because Mom or Dad looked away for a 1/2 second to go answer the door, and their kid was sitting on the grass playing. Infants/Toddlers not properly strapped into car seats in acidents. Should we put these parents in jail too? There not a danger to the community, or anyone. There is no reason to jail them for life, to do what? Teach them a lesson? I'm sure they are both dying a little inside every day because of what happened. The pain and agony of knowing you caused the death of your child is punishment enough. Jail time is excessive.

 

[glamdoll]

How can they see their child underweight, obviously and visibly unhealthy and not be concerned? There is baby soymilk, my baby use to take some cus he would get constipated alot.

I think they do deserve the sentence for neglecting their child.

Im at a loss for words, too many kids death on TV this week. I just dont know whats up w/ parents now a days.

 

[jenii]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladybug10678 I am guessing this child never saw a doctor because any pediatrican worth his degree would have been concerned at a 2 week check up when the baby had dropped so much weight. Failure to thrive is not easy to overlook.

You're correct. I've read a lot about this case, and it turns out that not only was the baby born in a BATHTUB, but the parents never took it for even an initial checkup. They claimed that they were afraid of hospitals because of "germs."

Please, you had a kid in your BATHTUB, and you're claiming that a hospital, which has to be kept SANITARY, is dangerous?

I'm of the opinion that these people didn't really want this kid, and didn't really care about it. Why else would they neglect it to SUCH a degree?

They got what they deserved. The worst part? When the verdict was first read, apparently these people felt they were going to jail "for no reason."

Killing your baby through neglect is apparently not a good enough reason to punish you. Ugh.

 

[user79]

I do think they deserve jail time, I mean this isn't something you can just say "Oops, m'ibad!!" to. A child died, and you don't have to be an expert in pediatric care to know that a diet consisting of soy milk and apple juice is not the correct way to feed a baby. Women are given breasts so they can breastfeed their young, and if for some reason that doesn't work, you get advice from the doctor on an appropriate substitute.

I do think life in jail is a bit of a strong sentence, even some cold-blooded killers get less time in jail, which is a worse offense in my books. This is a case of grave negligence resulting in death, but I think life in prison is a bit much. Although sometimes "life in prison" ends up being like 15 years or something...

 

[redambition]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Why? They learned a hard lesson. I'm sure if they did ever decide to have another child (not gonna happen with the stupid verdict), they would care for it differently. From the replies on this thread, it's obvious why they got the max sentance. Bunch of self righteous judgemental people. Probably the same as their Jury. Why this even got to court is beyond me. What ever happened to helping people and teaching them? Community service in a childrens hospital with mandatory parenting classes would have been more beneficial imho. This is a waste of taxpayer dollars jailing these 2. And an abuse of our judicial system.

bunch of judgemental self righteous people? because of these two people, a child (THEIR child) is dead. it amounts to manslaughter at the least, and murder at the worst. both crimes deserving of jail time.

your incessant s**t stirring and fight picking is getting old, rae. if you're going to start threads on highly subjective topics such as this, be prepared to accept that not everyone will agree with your views.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbrookecorex I agree with you completely. Perhaps Im taking the unpopular stance here, but they didn't do it on PURPOSE, it should not be labeled MURDER. It was an accident, not something done maliciously. Jail time isn't going to do a darn thing because they're not any type of menace to society. This is rediculous, a life sentence. Christ.

Not only did their child die at 3.5 lbs at 6 weeks of age, that's also a net loss of at least 2 lbs from birth (going off an assumption that the baby weighed 5.5 lbs at birth).
Failure to thrive is obvious.
This is not an accident.
This is intentional and obvious neglect.
Were it NOT intentional and obvious the child would have been taken to the hospital when it was showing signs of failure.
Failure to thrive is OBVIOUS, and were it not for the fact the child died it would still be starving quietly.
Starvation plays a HELL of dance on the body. Muscle degeneration, brain degeneration, tissue loss, heart problems...
At 6 weeks of age, the growth in a child who is healthy is nearly VISIBLE. The milestones certainly are.
This was no accident.
Was the death an accident? It wasn't intentional, but it was a) avoidable and b) inevitable by the way they were raising the child.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

I've read a lot about this case, and it turns out that not only was the baby born in a BATHTUB, but the parents never took it for even an initial checkup. They claimed that they were afraid of hospitals because of "germs."

I'm surprised they're not trying for "not guilty for reason of mental illness" because the germ thing sounds nuts to me.