WHO is Jesus?

[Shimmer]

Or perhaps Jesus never died: he just fainted on the cross and revived in the tomb. This idea was popularized in the book The Passover Plot by Hugh Schonfield. Unfortunately the author overlooked the fact that the Romans pierced Jesus' side, which would have most certainly killed him. Also, there was a contingent of Roman soldiers guarding the tomb as well as a huge stone that blocked its entrance. There was no way that a resuscitated Jesus could have escaped and then convinced hundreds of skeptical eyewitnesses that he had conquered death forever! Or was it all a mass hallucination? It must have been quite a hallucination to be seen by vastly different kinds of people at different times of day in many different places. You might be able to fool one person, but can you fool five hundred who saw him at one time? And unlike the pattern of hallucinations, these appearances of the resurrected Jesus stopped as suddenly as they started, forty days after the resurrection took place.

The only satisfactory explanation is that the resurrection actually occurred, just as the record says. And if that's the case, it's a solid reason for accepting the Messiahship of Jesus.

Finally, Jesus transforms people's lives. Because he provides atonement for sin and reconciliation with God, Jesus brings peace, joy, and purpose into people's lives. Apart from faith in him, there is no basis for true peace or direction, for as the psalmist says, "Man is estranged from the womb." That this estrangement is healed by the reconciling ministry of Jesus is the common experience of those who believe in him.

 

[hyperRealGurl]

Shimmer ...... I love how u break things down for us

i read this post and was like ooooook this thread is kinda dangerous.. cause people have different religious views. I also like the fact that u dont make things like this personal.... i have had personal friends of mines look down on me do to the fact that i dont go to church and b/c my mother was buddist... i say WAS b/c she passed away when i was 16. all i know is that i do beleive in a higher power, i choose not to go to church not beacuse i dont beleive , b/c there are so many religions out there to choose from. we all have our own opions on whats fact/ and whats false. anyways thats all i have to say about that b/c i dont know to much about the topic. My main thing is to thank SHIMMER for putting some intreasting information out there. So with that PEACE lovely ladies,

 

[Shimmer]

Having faith, whatever that faith is in, is a good thing. Researching that faith is important.
Believing in God, in most cases (and specifically within my religion) is a good start, but unfortunately not enough.
Most Christian religions teach that "No man may get to the Father, but through Me (Christ)" which translates to the only way one may get to Heaven is to believe that Christ died on the cross for the sins of the world and was resurrected...the resurrection is key.

 

[Hawkeye]

Very well said Shimma!

 

[Life In Return]

Angelic Me:

Your Quran says the Bible is not corrupt. YOUR book says that, and with that being so, that means that Jesus is the Son of God as the Bible states. He IS the Messiah. The Quran says that the books of Moses, the Psalms, and the gospel were all given by God.

"We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers," (Sura 2:87).

"We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms," (4:163).

"It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (3:3).

Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46).

That right there shows how the Quran says the Bible is God inspired and it says that Christ CONFIRMED the law.

And not only does the Quran say that the Bible is inspired by God, but it also says that the Word of God cannot be altered. So if your Quran calls the Bible the Word of God, and then says that it can't be altered, Muslims who argue that the Bible is wrong or say that Christ isn't who He is (which is all) are going against their belief system.

Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).

"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all," (6:115).

"For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity," (10:64).

When Muhammed (570 - 632) was alive, he claimed to receive the revelation of the Qu'ran from Allah. This means that at that time, the Bible which was in existence, could not have been corrupted because the Qu'ran states that God's word cannot be corrupted. The question I have for the Muslims is "When and where was the Bible corrupted, since the Qu'ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah's words cannot be changed?"

And even to say the Bible has contradictions ? Like a song I like says, contradictions in the Bible are like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Contradictions in the Bible are actually based on misunderstandings of the text. If you let me know what you see as a contradiction, just tell me, and I will try my best to explain it to you, but while we ARE on the topic of contradictions...

• What does the Quran say that man was made from ? (96:2, 15:26, 3:59, 52:35, 16:4)
• Who was the 1st Muslim ? (39:12, 7:143, 2:132)
• Is it okay or not okay to drink alcohol ? (5:90, 47:15, 83:22-25)
• The Quran says you can only have up to 4 wives. Why did Muhammad have 12, including an 8 year old (Aesah), and the wife of his adopted son (Zaynab) ? (4:3)
• In how many days was the earth created ? 6 (Sura 10:3) or 8 ? (Surah 41:9-12)

The Quran severely oppresses women... and it objectifies them. What's up with that ? The Quran also states in Sura 5:116, 5:73-75 that Christians believe in 3 Gods - Father, Mother, Son. That is pure heresy and fallacy because nowhere is that said in the Bible.

In Christianity, Jesus is God in flesh who paid for our sins on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24). Because of that, we Christians are secure in Him and do not have to worry about doing enough good works to please God since we are saved by grace through faith in Him (Eph. 2:8-9).

Also... Why should Christians give up the guarantee of salvation in Jesus for the requirements of your Quranic law when you yourselves don't even know if you have done enough good deeds to be saved on the Day of Judgment?

Just some thoughts and so on for you, Angelic Me. I welcome the feedback. Thank you for your time

Peace in Christ.

 

[MissMarley]

Well said, Shimmer.

The concept of a Holy Trinity is difficult for finite human minds to grasp. But as a Christian, I believe that a God so big that He could create our entire universe would have to be more than just one "thing". The Trinity concept, of the Father (God), Son (Jesus Christ), and Holy Spirit (the essence of God which fills and guides those who place their faith in Him) makes a lot more sense to me than just some old spiritual guy sitting on a cloud somewhere.

Also, we have to remember that Jesus' death and resurrection were vital to be a sacrifice to atone for our sins- if Jesus was just a man, then His sacrifice wasn't important and didn't cover our sins- we still have to fear God's wrath. However, because we believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to die in our place and be reborn, taking away all our sin and hurt, that sacrifice is the most important thing in the world.

Obviously, I'm saying all this from a Christian worldview. I am trying, in my own way, to explain why I disagree with the email that was posted at the beginning of this thread. I understand that many of you follow different religions, and I'm not trying to force my views down anyone's throat. I do, however, welcome the opportunity to share my beliefs in an intelligent discussion with people I enjoy talking to- which would be you, my fellow Specktrites. I think this is fascinating, and that we can learn from each other. I didn't become a Christian till I was in high school, and I'm glad that I did- my life has taken a path I never expected, but I love it.

I also don't understand why we've mentioned several times that various religious texts were written by men- does that make them less trustworthy? I understand that we are strong women, and I will call myself a feminist- but that means I believe I am equal to a man, not that men are more falliable than women. And I do not think Christianity demeans women in any way- there are Scriptures that have been twisted to demean women, but in their proper context, they do not at all.

 

[amandamakeup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch Gotta agree, stop saying screw this if you aren't mature enough to give an actual insight to the discussion! I think her intent was to really cause us to think. It's interesting though because its fun to see the various thoughts of other people!

NO, you know what, not mature enough to talk about jefus on a stinking make up board? who the hell are you? you can all have your little jesus talk, this freakin site has been pissing me off for weeks, im officially outta this stank ass site, and off to play with the professionals, and not the little wankers like you "experimenting" with makeup.
call me whatever names you want,, i could really give a shit less. adios!

 

[amandamakeup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer suggestion? Stop reading the thread. You know what the contents are. Not a person who is willingly taking part is forcing you to become part of the conversation. Don't click.

same thing here.. you can talk about religion, and all say,, its freedom of speech or whatever...yet i get called immature for saying screw this... my computer... my right to say what i want... now im outta here.

 

[Hawkeye]

Well I'm not gonna baby you while other members may. If your this upset then get on out. If you've so called HAD it with this site, well NOBODY and I mean NOBODY is forcing you to come here. YOU are the one who is choosing to come here. SO yeah, GROW UP.

 

[stacey]

Being born & raised Catholic all my life I'ver learned about everything about the Catholic religion. I never questioned the Holy Trinity though I never understood it cause no one could explain it to me. I'm a recent revert to Islam so I don't know many things about it. Though, I would like to point out that we do believe in the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) though (at least from my understanding is) we do not believe he died for our sins (or on the cross). Muslims do not believe that he is the son of God.(Please, any fellow Muslims correct me if I was wrong in that statement.)

Us Muslims believe that the Prophet Isa (pbuh) is a prophet and a servent of Allah. Though, we do not belive him as the son of Allah. Allah can have no son or daughter. In Islam there is no idea of a Trinity. According to the Holy Qur'an, the Prophet Isa (pbuh) was not crucifed; rather, he was taken up by Allah.

Quote:

The Quran severely oppresses women... and it objectifies them. What's up with that ?

Life in Return, first I wanted to ask where you got your source for all the Holy Qur'an verses? If you got it from some book or the internet I ask you to please be a little bit smarter cause a lot of the translations of the Holy Qur'an that are published via web or book are wrong. The best way to get the translation of the Holy Qur'an is through someone who either knows the Holy Qur'an back & forth or someone who knows Arabic.

Furthermore, do you have any evidence that the Holy Qur'an "suppreses women?" If so, I'd love to see it. Let me give you 2 examples of Great Muslim women that are spoken highly of in the Holy Qur'an.

- Khadijah ul-Kubra (RA): Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) wife. When the revelation came from Allah and Muhammad (pbuh) was made the Prophet, it was Khadijah who accepted the faith and became the first Muslim. "When none believed me, Khadijah did. She made me a partner in her wealth."- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

- Fatimah (RA): Youngest of the 4 daughters of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). She is knows as the Leader of Women. Ali, her husband, respected her. According to Ahadith Fatimah was regarded as a great and respected lady by the women of her day because of her personality, kindness, politeness & dignity. The Prophet said, " Among the women of the whole world, four are great: Khadijah, Fatimah, Maryam (Mary, the Prophet Isa's (pbuh) mother) and Asiyah."

All in all, religion is a very touchy subject. In the end we all (at least most) believe that there is 1 God that we believe in, we just call Him by different names.

 

[stacey]

And if anyone was offended by my post I apologize. Like I said, religion is such a touchy subject. This is just for argument sake.

 

[Life In Return]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stacey Being born & raised Catholic all my life I'ver learned about everything about the Catholic religion. I never questioned the Holy Trinity though I never understood it cause no one could explain it to me. I'm a recent revert to Islam so I don't know many things about it. Though, I would like to point out that we do believe in the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) though (at least from my understanding is) we do not believe he died for our sins (or on the cross). Muslims do not believe that he is the son of God.(Please, any fellow Muslims correct me if I was wrong in that statement.) Us Muslims believe that the Prophet Isa (pbuh) is a prophet and a servent of Allah. Though, we do not belive him as the son of Allah. Allah can have no son or daughter. In Islam there is no idea of a Trinity. According to the Holy Qur'an, the Prophet Isa (pbuh) was not crucifed; rather, he was taken up by Allah. Life in Return, first I wanted to ask where you got your source for all the Holy Qur'an verses? If you got it from some book or the internet I ask you to please be a little bit smarter cause a lot of the translations of the Holy Qur'an that are published via web or book are wrong. The best way to get the translation of the Holy Qur'an is through someone who either knows the Holy Qur'an back & forth or someone who knows Arabic. Furthermore, do you have any evidence that the Holy Qur'an "suppreses women?" If so, I'd love to see it. Let me give you 2 examples of Great Muslim women that are spoken highly of in the Holy Qur'an. - Khadijah ul-Kubra (RA): Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) wife. When the revelation came from Allah and Muhammad (pbuh) was made the Prophet, it was Khadijah who accepted the faith and became the first Muslim. "When none believed me, Khadijah did. She made me a partner in her wealth."- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) - Fatimah (RA): Youngest of the 4 daughters of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). She is knows as the Leader of Women. Ali, her husband, respected her. According to Ahadith Fatimah was regarded as a great and respected lady by the women of her day because of her personality, kindness, politeness & dignity. The Prophet said, " Among the women of the whole world, four are great: Khadijah, Fatimah, Maryam (Mary, the Prophet Isa's (pbuh) mother) and Asiyah." All in all, religion is a very touchy subject. In the end we all (at least most) believe that there is 1 God that we believe in, we just call Him by different names.

Thanks for that, however... You didn't answer any of my questions though. And the Quran is actually a direct translation. I used to study it and then I found the flaws.... That was in 99 / 2000.

So if Muslims do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then what about your Quran saying the Bible is true, which states that... Jesus Christ is the Son of God ?

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amandamakeup same thing here.. you can talk about religion, and all say,, its freedom of speech or whatever...yet i get called immature for saying screw this... my computer... my right to say what i want... now im outta here.

Thank you for such a helpful addition to this conversation.

 

[Rina_cz]

Funny how out of all of this, no one wants to bring up hell.

Why?

So many people don't want to believe in the God of the bible (and if you don't, more power to you) yet are scared to talk about hell.

Talk about what you like. Believe what you will. But if anyone wants to know the truth, just holla. I know there are people on here who are seriously curious about what happens when we die, and is there more to life than makeup and obsessions. I'm talking to them.

 

[Shimmer]

Hell?
Of course no one wants to talk about hell...it's always an uncomfortable thing at a funeral when listening to the speaker go on and on about going into the Lord's arms, and the Lord calling the deceased home, when according to my beliefs, if the deceased never made certain decisions, then.........not exactly going to paradise. :/

 

[MissMarley]

So what comes first for many people in making decisions about religion? Fear of hell or truly desiring to have a relationship with God? I remember being a younger teen, laying in bed awake at night, wondering what would happen to me when I died....whether I would be a ghost, be reborn, be in heaven or hell, or just be....nothing. I think one of the biggest reasons I chose to become a Christian is that the nothing scared me the most- it didn't make any sense to me that this entire beautiful and bizarre universe exists, with no purpose and no creator- it didn't make sense to me that beautiful and bizarre people could exist with no purpose and no creator. and I looked at other paths, I looked at Buddhism, various New Age beliefs, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam- and Christianity was the one that rang true. The one that made the most sense. No person can be perfect- we can never fully atone for all our sins against a perfect God. We can never follow the rules 100%. There had to be a price paid for our forgiveness. And what was big enough, important enough, that it could cover all the sins of all mankind? Only the one and only Son of God- that is the one life that could be sacrificed that would mean enough to truly cover us all. All throughout human life, culture, and philosophy, we find the theme of sacrifice made for forgiveness. Christ's death on the cross is the ultimate sacrifice for us- because God loved us enough, He sacrificed His son so that our sins would be forgiven and we would be able to stand before Him clean and whole. There are a lot of accusations made against Christians- some deserved, some not. But the forgiveness offered by God is beautiful and holy; and although Christians may stumble and fail, God does not.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissMarley So what comes first for many people in making decisions about religion? Fear of hell or truly desiring to have a relationship with God? I remember being a younger teen, laying in bed awake at night, wondering what would happen to me when I died....whether I would be a ghost, be reborn, be in heaven or hell, or just be....nothing. I think one of the biggest reasons I chose to become a Christian is that the nothing scared me the most- it didn't make any sense to me that this entire beautiful and bizarre universe exists, with no purpose and no creator- it didn't make sense to me that beautiful and bizarre people could exist with no purpose and no creator. and I looked at other paths, I looked at Buddhism, various New Age beliefs, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam- and Christianity was the one that rang true. The one that made the most sense. No person can be perfect- we can never fully atone for all our sins against a perfect God. We can never follow the rules 100%. There had to be a price paid for our forgiveness. And what was big enough, important enough, that it could cover all the sins of all mankind? Only the one and only Son of God- that is the one life that could be sacrificed that would mean enough to truly cover us all. All throughout human life, culture, and philosophy, we find the theme of sacrifice made for forgiveness. Christ's death on the cross is the ultimate sacrifice for us- because God loved us enough, He sacrificed His son so that our sins would be forgiven and we would be able to stand before Him clean and whole. There are a lot of accusations made against Christians- some deserved, some not. But the forgiveness offered by God is beautiful and holy; and although Christians may stumble and fail, God does not.

Indeed.

 

[stacey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life In Return Thanks for that, however... You didn't answer any of my questions though. And the Quran is actually a direct translation. I used to study it and then I found the flaws.... That was in 99 / 2000. So if Muslims do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then what about your Quran saying the Bible is true, which states that... Jesus Christ is the Son of God ?

Like I've said in my previous post I'm a recent revert to Islam so I don't have all the answers. I'm sorry you're disappointed that I couldn't answer those you've asked but I'm not the person to ask. I felt like I needed to reply to your post in general.

At any rate, I hope you get your questions answered so it can clear up what you want to know about Islam.

And on the same note, you didn't answer my questions

 

[Parishoon]

First while I understand we all wish to be understanding, the initial post is not in that spirit and I hate that 24pt font w/ colours, for that I did not read any of those posts, perhaps a bad idea, but the posting style signaled to me that this was not a serious discussion, but a hasty I'm right you're wrong, look at what i've found that my friend emailed me from who knows where, but I don't know her true intentions. I also believe that this is not the place, because as with all things intensely personal, some one's feathers will be ruffled and while it does belong here moreso than in the other area, I find discussing politics and religion to be the two most sensitive issues and if approached incorrectly set ppl on their heels immediately.

I must apologize in advance as much of this is hasty and I do not have the time to go find "sources" and I am going off what I learned in an attempt to answer your questions, which I am sure will be insufficient. I apologize also for the length of this post.
key:

• (saw): an honorific arabic (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallaam) meaning peace be upon him
• (ru): an honorific arabic (radiy allahu anhuma) meaning may Allah (Swt) be pleased
• (swt): an honorific reserved for Allah (swt) arabic (subhana wa tala) meaning The Sacred and The Mighty
• ayah/ayat: singular/plural arabic equivalent of verse
• surrah: arabic equivalent of chapter

any i forgot let me know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life In Return Angelic Me: Your Quran says the Bible is not corrupt. YOUR book says that, and with that being so, that means that Jesus is the Son of God as the Bible states. He IS the Messiah. The Quran says that the books of Moses, the Psalms, and the gospel were all given by God.

Firstly, I am not accusing you of plagarism, as you mention having studied for yourself and discovered the flaws, however I noticed a huge number of similarities to a paper issued by the CARM (Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry) organization and other groups. It spawned fliers/emails similar to Angelic Me's initial post questioning Who Jesus is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life In Return "We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers," (Sura 2:87). "We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms," (4:163). "It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (3:3). Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46). That right there shows how the Quran says the Bible is God inspired and it says that Christ CONFIRMED the law. And not only does the Quran say that the Bible is inspired by God, but it also says that the Word of God cannot be altered. So if your Quran calls the Bible the Word of God, and then says that it can't be altered, Muslims who argue that the Bible is wrong or say that Christ isn't who He is (which is all) are going against their belief system. Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34). "The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all," (6:115). "For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity," (10:64). When Muhammed (570 - 632) was alive, he claimed to receive the revelation of the Qu'ran from Allah. This means that at that time, the Bible which was in existence, could not have been corrupted because the Qu'ran states that God's word cannot be corrupted. The question I have for the Muslims is "When and where was the Bible corrupted, since the Qu'ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah's words cannot be changed?"

I am not qualified to address each individual statement, and again, don't have time to hunt down references myself, so I'm gonna refer you to this site for the rebuttal to the CARM organization which had many of the same concerns:http://www.answering-christianity.co...mattslick1.htm
The odd symbols should be arabic, but they fail to show up on all computers due to font compatability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life In Return And even to say the Bible has contradictions ? Like a song I like says, contradictions in the Bible are like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Contradictions in the Bible are actually based on misunderstandings of the text. If you let me know what you see as a contradiction, just tell me, and I will try my best to explain it to you, but while we ARE on the topic of contradictions...

Contradicitions in the Quran are similarly based on misinterpretation of the text.
There are many versions of the Quran with tafsir in them which differ in opinions on interpretation of words, and it is best to use several translations and tafsir. Even if you are able to read Quranic Arabic proficiently, and also use the ahadith and sunnah to come to a full and accurate interpretation. The contradictions you discovered, are well known in intellectual circles and often used as proof Islam is false, there are similar things with the Bible as you have alluded to. I understand that as a living document [sort of], what happens in one part may not be applicable in another. I wish people would offer the same courtesy to Islam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life In Return [*]What does the Quran say that man was made from ? (96:2, 15:26, 3:59, 52:35, 16:4)

I am unable to explain this one well, as I don't know several of the Arabic words, but they are all being removed from context by citing them alone w/o the benefit of the accomanying ayat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life In Return [*]Who was the 1st Muslim ? (39:12, 7:143, 2:132)

As per your citation, Mohammed, (saw), Moses (saw), and Ibrahim (saw), and your logic for there being 3 first Muslims is due to the translation of the Arabic text. Muslim=one who submit to God(swt), and is used as such in the Quran. However not all who submit to the God of Ibrahim (swt) are Muslim if they do not follow the pillars of Islam. Those pillars were not presented to the 2 earlier mentioned prophets. Islam views itself as the last of the Ibrahimic faiths, the end of the triology so to speak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life In Return [*]Is it okay or not okay to drink alcohol ? (5:90, 47:15, 83:22-25)

it began as permissible but not recommended but as more surahs were revealted it moved to not being permited during prayer, to completely forbidden, this covers a span of approximately 23 yrs.
Today, many Muslims drink, though they are prescribed by the Quran not to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life In Return [*]The Quran says you can only have up to 4 wives. Why did Muhammad have 12, including an 8 year old (Aesah), and the wife of his adopted son (Zaynab) ? (4:3)

Mohammed (saw) took no additional wives until the death of his first wife Khadijah(ru). As was customary in many previous socities and still occurs today, marriages were made to secure treaties/alliances. Ayesha(ru), was the daughter of Abu Bakr(ru), his most important political ally. He also reportedly did not consumate the marriage until she was of age. The limit of 4 wives did not appear until later, and Mohammed (saw) was exempted because of ayahs which indicated that one may not marry a widow of the prophet.
read more here: Wikipedia link on Mohammed's (saw) Marriages

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life In Return [*]In how many days was the earth created ? 6 (Sura 10:3) or 8 ? (Surah 41:9-12)

Again an ayah taken out of context. In the preceding ayats, it states that people will come attempting to raise doubts to the authenticity using the information contained in the portion. This deals with an interpretation issue of each number being mutually exclusive, and that what happened in 8 days could not also include what was earlier said to have taken place in 6 days. (i'm sorry this explanation is hazy, it's late)

rest follows in second post, this one was too long

 

[Parishoon]

apologizies for two in a row
Quote:

Originally Posted by Life In Return The Quran severely oppresses women... and it objectifies them. What's up with that ?

You may think this an ad hominem attack, but this arguement is as old as dirt. Women are also objectified in the Bible iirc, but there are a few who are exaulted, such as the Virgin Mary(ru), it is similar in Islam. I am honestly at a loss where to start with this one. I may be alone in my interpretation, but I see it as men are incapable of controling their nafs (body/earthly urges) and I should do my part not to encourage one to sin. (No, I don't wear hijab, as I feel in the US, it actually has the opposite effect than originally intended, but
I do dress modestly).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life In Return The Quran also states in Sura 5:116, 5:73-75 that Christians believe in 3 Gods - Father, Mother, Son. That is pure heresy and fallacy because nowhere is that said in the Bible.

Ayah 116 is a conversation between God(swt) and Jesus(saw), where Jesus denies he taught the people to worship himself and Mary as gods besides Allah(swt) but a group came up with it on their own.

The other ayah you mentioned does not claim Mary (ru) as part of the Trinity just that God(swt) is the third of 3. It does indicate that their due to their need to eat food that Mary(ru) and Jesus(saw) were human.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Life In Return In Christianity, Jesus is God in flesh who paid for our sins on the cross (1 Pet.2:24). Because of that, we Christians are secure in Him and do not have to worry about doing enough good works to please God since we are saved by grace through faith in Him (Eph. 2:8-9). Also... Why should Christians give up the guarantee of salvation in Jesus(saw) for the requirements of your Quranic law when you yourselves don't even know if you have done enough good deeds to be saved on the Day of Judgment?

No one is asking Christians to forsake their belief in Christ(saw) as their savior. At the risk of sounding snippy, Muslims are not supposed to encourage conversions. There is no compulsion is religion (& can we not bring up the different times in the Quran dealing with issues outside of choice), one cannot force some one to be a Muslim.

As for the hereafter, you believe one way and I another, I cannot explain to you the meaning in my heart of a God(wwt) most merciful, most benifical, and oft forgiving, but I can imagine it is similar to how you feel as having accepted Christ(saw) as your savior. (warm & fuzzy?) And I can only pray that inshallah I have done enough good to be worthy of reward. The different ways deeds are counted in Islam as I recall will influence your eternity. Muslims believe there are two angels, on records good deeds and one records bad, on the day of judgement these will be weighed against each other, it's not a strict
one for one scale, and intentions do factor in. I must be an active participant in ensuring my place in the hereafter.

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Originally Posted by Life In Return Just some thoughts and so on for you, Angelic Me. I welcome the feedback. Thank you for your time Peace in Christ.

& peace upon you as well.

I believe that the main contention between Islam & Christianity isn't in the nitty gritty, but rather a core believe to each group. For Muslims Isa (saw) is simply a prophet sent by Allah (swt) to bring people
back to him, and Allah (swt) has no son, and Christians see Isa (saw) as the Lord, and the son of God(swt). This I don't think I can do anything about, as faith is one of those things that is difficult to
articulate and for every person out there there is something "for" them.

I know I probably didn't provide satisfactory answers to your questions, but it is the best I can provide at this moment. Much of translating Arabic text/understanding the English version relies on the
context of the word and it's usage, and subtle variations in inntonation can change the meaning. It is similar to chinese, one character may mean different things, and depends on how it is spoken (iirc).


From the response to Stacey's post:
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Originally Posted by Life In Return Thanks for that, however... You didn't answer any of my questions though. And the Quran is actually a direct translation. I used to study it and then I found the flaws.... That was in 99 / 2000. So if Muslims do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then what about your Quran saying the Bible is true, which states that... Jesus Christ is the Son of God ?

As some one who used to study Islam, I don't understand why you would take ayat out of context & rely on a translation to interpret them.

The Quran doesn't state that the King James Verison of the Bible is true, the original un altered word of God given to Jesus, is what Muslims see as the true Bible. As any Muslim will also tell you translations of the Quran are not "valid" as it is not the "original" word of Allah (swt) and things may have gotten lost in translation.

I hope I have been able to address some of your concerns.