Will gay marriage lead to the downfall of society?

[Lapis]

You know what makes this so sad in the 1800's my great great grandparents were married and happy.
When gg-gf wanted to travel and visit his immigrated family in the US, he was told his wife had to be separate from him, he was white, she was black, it was perfectly legal where they lived for them to be married, it was illegal in the US however, these are the same arguements that made that marriage wrong, they just take out black and replace it with gay.

We must understand that God will also judge for false piety! Telling your fellow man he's less than you is not right! It's not moral, it's not Christ-like!

 

[frocher]

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[User27]

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[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Casadalinnis I really appreciate that you have learned or researched something before contributing. Not sarcasm, honesty. Entirely right that Islam is not AT ALL welcoming of same sex relations....men and women have been killed for carrying out homosexual relations, punishments also include stonings, hangings and public whippings. If people are lucky, they're forced to just pack up and leave areas due to them living a disgraceful life and then they're ostracized by the community. If I were to be in Lebanon and come clean about being intimate with a female, I could die for that act as I went against the teachings that I was supposed to dutifully carry out. I don't believe who I shared a relation with should be the end of my life but have seen my male Pakistani friend Shoaib be forced to give up his family in Lahore because of him having a boyfriend and getting caught. His older brother beat him in front of their house and yelled gandu(faggot) repeatedly while doing so and he was kicked out because they were ashamed of him. I cried when he told me what he went through all because he didn't want a wife. Islam has no tolerance for homosexuality as it's considered haram (sin) in the eyes of Allah. To this day, my father will never hear I've been involved with females as he was already severely pissed at me about a divorce and put 2 permanant scars on my body....I don't know how that would end up but I would never risk it. My friend Shoaib said the lack of any sexual release made him turn to a male friend for comfort. Experimentation was there and it led to a full blown sexual liason that resulted in him caring for the male he had grown up with. He kept it a secret from his family for 2 years and he got caught when he thought they were grocery shopping and hasn't seen his family since that day. It's something Muslim males do a lot but it's kept very discreet as to avoid disownment or worse for not following Islam accordingly. In Turkey, there's bath houses. In Pakistan, they meet discreetly to release when not around family. Saudi Arabia, same as Pakistan but the utmost discretion as people have been killed here for the act. The list goes on but I know of at least 4 males and 2 females that I've encountered who regularly had relations with people of the same sex and there is also a VERY high rate of sexual abuse within families in a few countries. People have no outlet sexually and there have been cases where 7 year old boys/girls were forced to perform fellatio on an older cousin and threatened if they didn't keep secret. If another person reads this and is a practicing Muslim still, I'm sorry if it offends. I learned of this guys' life when he was an emotional mess and I know it's against religion that I let him speak to me about things personal to this degree when I was still carrying on as a upright believer. I was already questioning how great of a Muslim I was and was comfortable having gay friends as it made me feel a little less sick. I know all this as well as that gandu word should never be used by a female but I'm not practicing now to abide by everything and hope you can understand that. I turned away because my beliefs didn't match what I was taught all the way and felt it was a farce for me to walk though the mosque doors Friday morning like I was like everybody else. None of this makes me a bad person, I just don't feel a need to hide my life as much when the people who know and care about me know almost as much as I do about my personal life now. I'm sorry if it offends you and I hope you understand the differences.

=/ At least Christianity (parts of it) is open minded enough to consider the love within the relationship.

 

[knoxydoll]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer Um. I don't think the Islamic world is AT ALL welcoming to the homosexual lifestyle in ANY manner. To suggest that Islamic thinking re: homosexuality is more modern than Christian thinking is the height of delusion.

I know they do not accept it all, and maybe have been killed because of being homosexual in the Islamic parts of the world; but in North America, I find at least, they don't speak out against it as much as many Christians do.

 

[jenee.sum]

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Originally Posted by Makeup Emporium ...Marriage is NOT religious. Marriage is a contract between 2 people recognized by LAW. Just because you see marriage as religious, and believe that it will be religious for YOU, does not mean that it is a fact that marriage is religious. It is a contract pure and simple.

Like Shimmer said, it's both. it can be religious if you want, or not if you do not want it to be. I, myself and my beau, do not want it to be. so we'll be having a non-religious marriage. but it's still a marriage, just not in "God's view," cuz there's nothing religious about my marriage.

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Originally Posted by nanefy Marriage is the union of a man and woman in front of god to say that as a couple they will live the way god intended and that they will live their lives for christ.

That is YOUR view on marriage. but marriage can be two ways, which is all dependent on your own personal view: religious & non-religious.
So the line "Marriage is the union of a man and woman in front of god to say that as a couple they will live the way god intended and that they will live their lives for christ..." would not matter and or be valid if two non-religious people (homosexual or not) decide to marry one another. Some people do not believe in God.

I'm not Christian, nor am i religious, so correct me if I'm wrong, but if I love and want to marry a person of the same sex, but was also Christian, and wanted to make it a religious marriage, why can't it be ok? Everyone is made in the image of GOD (in the eyes of Christians), and loves all of his children, ya? so if God made me in the image as him/her, but i just so happen to be a homosexual, shouldn't God still accept me for my sexual orientation and give me the right to marry the person i love?

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Originally Posted by nanefy However, don't then decide that you want to take the religious ceremony of marriage and make it whatever you want and expect christians to just shut up and live with it.

just like how you're not gunna shut up and live with it, people who do not agree with you will not shut up and live with it too.
again, it is YOUR view that marriage is a religious thing; not everyone's.

 

[User27]

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[User27]

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[Karen_B]

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Originally Posted by nanefy I never agreed that allowing same sex marriages would lead to the downfall of society, I never said that, not even once! I also said that taking time off from work and next of kin etc, was important and you should fight for that, so I'm not sure why you've tried to make out like I am making it 'small potatoes'. Just because marriage is an easy way to obtain civil rights, it does not make it right, or even the most logical thing to do. Civil rights and marriage have become too closely linked. No ones civil rights should be infringed because of their sexual preference, but for me that means finding another route to obtain them than marriage.

I am very sorry - I did not mean to imply you are of the opinion that gay marriages will lead to the downfall of society. That part was referring to the title of the thread, and was not aimed at you specifically. I apologize.

You did, however, say that getting married to obtain certain assurances (like being next of kin, etc.) makes marriage a "farce". To me, that is not very far from making those assurances sound like "small potatoes". And as far as I know, marriage has always been about civil rights. The romantic notion of marriage is to my understanding, fairly new.

What I don't understand is how you want these civil rights to be granted gay couples, if they're not allowed to be married.

Edit - it's very early in the morning here, and I missed that Nanefy has left the discussion. I will let this post stand, however, because I want to apologize for my mistake (see top paragraph).

 

[nunu]

Certain members of a certain religion do not represent the whole population. Just because men think they can use religion to justify their actions doesn't mean that it's what that religion entitles.

It takes being a muslim and living in a muslim country to know exaclty what the culture and religion entitles.

Back to topic which i am sure isn't about religion.

 

[iadoremac]

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Originally Posted by nunu Certain members of a certain religion do not represent the whole population. Just because men think they can use religion to justify their actions doesn't mean that it's what that religion entitles. It takes being a muslim and living in a muslim country to know exaclty what the culture and religion entitles. Back to topic which i am sure isn't about religion.

Exactly and so just because certain christians judge other people by the way they choose to live their lives does not mean all christians do........so back to the topic

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by knoxydoll I know they do not accept it all, and maybe have been killed because of being homosexual in the Islamic parts of the world; but in North America, I find at least, they don't speak out against it as much as many Christians do.

Oh well. That makes their views ok then. As long as they have them and don't speak or act on them.

 

[knoxydoll]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer Oh well. That makes their views ok then. As long as they have them and don't speak or act on them.

I never said it makes their views ok, it makes them their views. I don't personally agree with them but I'm also not ruler of the world and can't tell them I feel they're wrong. My original post was about why Christians seem to get all the blame (Nanefy had asked, although it was probably rhetorical) and it's because they're the ones in the front line speaking out against gay marriage.

 

[cazgh]

Wow so much stuff has been said already here its difficult to know if I should add to it but I just wanted to say that it isnt going to bring about the downfall of society as nothing ever does - we just carry on and evolve around whatever is in our surrounding environment. Great people like Einstein will always look for new ideas/technology to help us as a whole if society has any problems and the nutters will always be able to go mad and shoot people in their schools etc if they want to - unless we all live in prisons and get frisked every day before we leave the house.

Everybody should experience happiness in their lives and should be free to live them as they want to otherwise what is the point really?

I have to say I often find myself thinking that I'm glad I'm not god, or a judge and it isnt my job to determine if anything anybody else does is right or wrong - and I am truly thankful for that. Sometimes its hard enough making sure I do the right thing and live my life the way I want to without hurting anybody else.

People in heterosexual marriages get it wrong too so how can gay marriage possibly take the blame for the downfall of society? They will have years of catching up to do before they ever reach the level of atrocity committed in some so called 'normal' marriages anyway!!

 

[Lapis]

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Originally Posted by Casadalinnis There is an Indian movie called "Fire" that pretty much sums up the same things Muslim females go through as lesbians....amazing movie. "The Turkish Bath" was pretty educational as well but involves homosexual undertone. These aren't considered pornography, Muslims just aren't supposed to watch them because of content and it being against belief; too risque to watch. Fire is probably one of my fave movies but it still can make me cry....it's not the happiest movie.

I watched Fire recently very powerful movie

 

[sweatpea559]

I have always wondered how those who see marriage as a sacred religious institution feel about atheists getting married.

 

[ForgetRegret]

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Originally Posted by sweatpea559 I have always wondered how those who see marriage as a sacred religious institution feel about atheists getting married.

By their standards, I suppose atheists shouldn't be allowed to get married either. ...damn heathens.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by knoxydoll I never said it makes their views ok, it makes them their views. I don't personally agree with them but I'm also not ruler of the world and can't tell them I feel they're wrong. My original post was about why Christians seem to get all the blame (Nanefy had asked, although it was probably rhetorical) and it's because they're the ones in the front line speaking out against gay marriage.

No they're not speaking out against it.
They're stoning or killing or ostracizing anyone who dares to live the lifestyle. That's WAY better.

 

[ForgetRegret]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer No they're not speaking out against it. They're stoning or killing or ostracizing anyone who dares to live the lifestyle. That's WAY better.

I'm confused...I thought I was following this tennis match between you guys pretty well, but now I'm all confusticated.
The Christians are stoning people? ...or are we talking about the Islamic parts of the world again..?

Sorry...I'm having a Polish morning...and haven't finished my 1st cup of coffee yet.

 

[Lauren1981]

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Originally Posted by ForgetRegret Sorry...I'm having a Polish morning....