2008 Presidential Candidates Comparison ( Side By side)... DOn't know what to think.

[lizardprincesa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrtykitty "THEY" would be "those" from the previous sentence who don't feel like getting a job, or in your term, slackers. And I have plenty of social conscious, but not for slackers. Perhaps "THEY" should get a conscious and start contributing to the system "THEY" are screwing on a daily basis.

Why do you always have to be so mean and angry, purrtykitty? Maybe it's because I only meet up with you in controversial threads. Maybe when you talk about makeup, you're friendly and lovely. Here, however, I feel your negative vibes flying around....I wish I could say, "moving around like tumbleweed," but this negativity is more akin to a malignancy...as it can be so very contagious.

As I just wrote to Shimmer, I do realize that I, myself, am extremely flawed. I do not claim to be better than anybody else, in any way.
I have been told I am very naive, though.
I do need practise, however, as I must become the strongest advocate I can be, for the tasks which lie ahead in my personal path.

...
Would it hurt you to be a bit nicer to people sometimes, even in controversy? As a lawyer, surely you understand how to word even the most controversial opinions in less offensive ways ? Then again, I do not know what type of lawyer you are. Maybe you are a lawyer for Wall Street ? If so, then I think the money folks are in good hands. You wouldn't have to worry much about paying back all those student loans. (I finally finished paying mine back a few years ago...sigh...it did suck! I imagine, had I gone to law school, it would have been even more difficult.)

I want to say sorry for saying nasty things to you, but I am just so tired of
seeing negativity fly around. Specktra is a World within a World. how about a contribution of Positivity, even on a thread like this one. Surely you can think of something?

Peace.

CherylFaith
​

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by missworld That would be quite clever if you hadn't missed the point entirely. But it does not say much for your values! If I read you correctly, you are saying you believe you and yours will be safe by the results of your own hard work, you will be safe with the present health care system and you don't give a f*** if others aren't For the record me and mine all have excellent health insurance, but I find the whole concept to be morally wrong! missworld

Ok.
So you have different morals than I do.
Roger that.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by missworld That's sad. Think of the countless sacrifices of others that have made possible the life you live today. Jingoistic rhetoric. Fact Quote "Nearly 47 million Americans, or 16 percent of the population, were without health insurance in 2005, the latest government data available" Is that the American dream? You talk about values you wish to pass to your children, then examine your own. You are happy to live in a society that lets a fellow human being die from a curable illness because they haven't been able, for WHATEVER reason, to obtain sufficient medical insurance? If this is the case you are morally bankrupt. missworld

LOL

Not at all.
But I'm not going to raise my kids to expect the government and other people to take care of them.

Why is it okay to abdicate personal responsibility for oneself?

 

[kimmy]

can we keep it a little less personal and a little more on topic?

 

[missworld]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer LOL Not at all. But I'm not going to raise my kids to expect the government and other people to take care of them. Why is it okay to abdicate personal responsibility for oneself?

Personal responsibility to help the insurance companies make a more obscene profit.

How is it abdicating personal responsibility to have a society which cares for all of its members?

I am not advocating giving slacker an easy life on welfare.

I am saying the provision health care, like the provision of protection under the law is a basic human right in a modern civilization.

Do you think some who is dying from cancer should have to worry about her insurance?


missworld

 

[TISH1124]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmy can we keep it a little less personal and a little more on topic?

I do understand what you are trying to accomplish in asking this and I agree with you for wishing that to happen, However, when threads of this nature start.. You have to realize that topics like Politics & Religion are very Personal... Especially when people can not agree to disagree.

I say to both candidates...Good Luck

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by missworld Personal responsibility to help the insurance companies make a more obscene profit. How is it abdicating personal responsibility to have a society which cares for all of its members? I am not advocating giving slacker an easy life on welfare. I am saying the provision health care, like the provision of protection under the law is a basic human right in a modern civilization. Do you think some who is dying from cancer should have to worry about her insurance? missworld

No I don't.

At the same time, I don't believe in a socialistic society. I also know how well government health care runs, as in not at all.

I don't believe in the obscene profits ins cos are making, but I also don't believe in taking one man's hard earned money and giving it to another simply because the second didn't make the same amount of money as the first did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TISH1127 I do understand what you are trying to accomplish in asking this and I agree with you for wishing that to happen

Kimmy is a moderator asking that a thread remain civil.
Regardless of the nature of that thread, the request needs to be honored.

 

[missworld]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrtykitty "THEY" would be "those" from the previous sentence who don't feel like getting a job, or in your term, slackers. And I have plenty of social conscious, but not for slackers. Perhaps "THEY" should get a conscious and start contributing to the system "THEY" are screwing on a daily basis.

I agree that "slackers" should not enjoy an easy life at the expense of the rest of a hardworking society.

But are you really saying that the 16% of Americans who are uninsured are all "slackers"!

But lets take your worst case then: Someone is a "slacker" and they get cancer, are you saying they should not receive medical treatment? Essential sentenced to a painful death for being a "slacker"?


missworld

 

[missworld]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer No I don't. At the same time, I don't believe in a socialistic society.

And that's the point isn't it, I believe you think socialized medicine = socialism so your opposed to it whatever the facts for or against are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer I also know how well government health care runs, as in not at all. .

Do tell how you know and a few provable facts to back up you assertion would be nice.


missworld

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

so Honestly, if you work for a large company, and your employer makes over 250,000 a year, do you honestly think that employees will NOT feel the effect of their employers losing money?

If one thinks that everything will stay the same, one must be quite naive.

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TISH1127 I do understand what you are trying to accomplish in asking this and I agree with you for wishing that to happen, However, when threads of this nature start.. You have to realize that topics like Politics & Religion are very Personal... Especially when people can not agree to disagree. I say to both candidates...Good Luck

these are very touchy and personal subjects, however, personal attacks are never welcomed on specktra as we're all adults here and should act as such.

Quote:

Originally Posted by missworld But are you really saying that the 16% of Americans who are uninsured are all "slackers"!

that number will fluctuate regularly. some people in that percentile have simply fallen on hard times, in which case i do not see a problem with the system helping them so long as they've helped the system. however, the ones who remain in the percentile for their entire life and never put anything in, i simply don't think should get anything out of it. again, that's my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by missworld Do tell how you know and a few provable facts to back up you assertion would be nice.

shimmer has already quite eloquently detailed her knowledge of government run health care in this thread a few pages back.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by missworld And that's the point isn't it, I believe you think socialized medicine = socialism so your opposed to it whatever the facts for or against are.

Well obviously my position is quite flawed because given the same information, we both draw different conclusions.
There's no possible way to make a national health plan that won't cost an arm and a leg. There's no possible way to implement a program for universal healthcare that won't cost the American people an unbelievable sum of money. Not only will it cost a load of money, it will also be absolutely confounding and confusing to use.
Add in the regulations, oversight, bureaucratic mess, etc. and while the idea is nice, it's not feasible.

Quote:

Do tell how you know and a few provable facts to back up you assertion would be nice. missworld

Ask anyone who's dealt with Tricare on a military post. Ask anyone who's tried to muddle through that tape and mess.

Please, by all means, continue with the ridiculous uber-liberal diatribes. That's fine. I don't share your view point and honestly, I think your viewpoint is expensive and a lot less than rational.
But that's okay, because you're entitled to it.

 

[TISH1124]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Kimmy is a moderator asking that a thread remain civil. Regardless of the nature of that thread, the request needs to be honored.

I have not once been uncivil Jaime...Nor have I advocated for anyone else to be...I was simply stating that it is very hard for people to not get personal when it comes to politics and religion..as we can see from all of the posts that have been made tonight...It is a personal issue and I don't think all the people posting are trying to be offensive however when one does not agree with what certain people agree to it seems to be taken as a personal attack.
Everyone is entitled to feel what they feel regardless of whether or not Dick, Bob or Harry agrees with it.

I agree the request needs to be honored by ALL responding I think there is added agitation from those who should be also helping make sure it does remain civil and not "personal"

 

[missworld]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmy for their entire life and never put anything in, i simply don't think should get anything out of it. again, that's my opinion.

Agreed on financial assistance.

But are you saying you would let a slacker die of cancer, because that is the ultimate point of the health care debate

Do you think they should be left to die, yes or no?


missworld

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TISH1127 I have not once been uncivil Jaime...Nor have I advocated for anyone else to be...I was simply stating that it is very hard for people to not get personal when it comes to politics and religion..as we can see from all of the posts that have been made tonight...It is a personal issue and I don't think all the people posting are trying to be offensive however when one does not agree with what certain people agree to it seems to be taken as a personal attack. Everyone is entitled to feel what they feel regardless of whether or not Dick, Bob or Harry agrees with it. I agree the request needs to be honored by ALL responding I think there is added agitation from those who should be also helping make sure it does remain civil and not "personal"

actually, there was a personal attack.
Luckily, it was on me, and I'm not too concerned about it.
However, posting guidelines do need to be followed.

 

[TISH1124]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmy these are very touchy and personal subjects, however, personal attacks are never welcomed on specktra as we're all adults here and should act as such.

I totally agree and respect that...

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by missworld Agreed on financial assistance. But are you saying you would let a slacker die of cancer, because that is the ultimate point of the health care debate Do you think they should be left to die, yes or no? missworld

No cancer is NOT the ultimate point of the healthcare debate.
The ultimate point of the healthcare debate is:
How would it be funded?
Who would provide oversight?
How would coverage be determined?
How would hospitals, research, equipment, etc. be procured through an agency that has yet to be formed in a timely manner?
How would the program be implemented seamlessly?
What funding would provide salaries for medical professionals?
What agency is going to provide measurable standards for care?
Will doctors, nurses, etc. become government employees?
How will wait times be shortened, so Americans aren't faced with the same situation some of our neighbors are, where a necessary surgery is put off for months on end, due to whatever reasons the government run healthcare agencies provide?
With the sudden lack of free market environment for materials, medications, etc., what will be the motivation for research and development of newer and better treatment plans, materials, medications, and equipment?

I'm sure other people can add to that list.



The pulling the heartstrings of the listeners tactic is a failed one, because it doesn't address the issue. Of course no one deserves to be left in the street to die, but at the same time, when a program is being thrown around like the universal health care idea is, the questions of implementation have to be answered instead of the pie in the sky statements being made.

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TISH1127 I have not once been uncivil Jaime...Nor have I advocated for anyone else to be...I was simply stating that it is very hard for people to not get personal when it comes to politics and religion..as we can see from all of the posts that have been made tonight...It is a personal issue and I don't think all the people posting are trying to be offensive however when one does not agree with what certain people agree to it seems to be taken as a personal attack. Everyone is entitled to feel what they feel regardless of whether or not Dick, Bob or Harry agrees with it. I agree the request needs to be honored by ALL responding I think there is added agitation from those who should be also helping make sure it does remain civil and not "personal"

you have been very civil, and i appreciate that alot.

there were just a couple personal attacks made on two different members that were uncalled for is all.

 

[lizardprincesa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmy i think it's kind of disrespectful to think that mccain is mentally unstable because he endured torture in service to his country, to be honest. i'm sure that's not how you meant it, but i just feel like alot of people take points from him because of that and i think it's really sad.

Kimmy, it would be disrespectful to base my opinion on this fact; you are 100% correct. You are also correct in realizing that's not how I meant it (thank you);
in fact, while we were watching the debate, I was trying really hard *not* to think about it, as it is an idea which has become trite and tired.

Kimmy, seriously, I was actually worried about him, as a person...He seemed to have trouble walking, and something about his eyes make him seem (to me) that he is lost... & I am at a loss for words; I am exhausted (as well as no good at arguing, as you've surely seen many a time.)....Ok...he doesn't appear to be up to the task. he is extremely strong on Military. That's all I heard & saw, & yes, I think, based on all the recent years' exposure on PTSD, I think maybe he's suffering from it...still...? Do people recover fully? I am no expert....on anything, really. All I can state is my opinion. I didn't intend to be disrespectful when speaking about him (although, if I examine my conscience very carefully, maybe I'll find something more...I pray not, but it's not unlikely.)

Yes, Kimmy; I agree, it is definitely sad.

I honestly think we need major change. All I can write here is my own
opinion.

I am getting very sleepy. My son will be awake in a few short hours (he hates sleeping, like his mommy, & stays up as late as he can keep his eyes open, & wakes up as early as he can)

& I *must* refresh my mind with sleep, whether or not I want to. My writing will suffer & so will my AM mood.
So...
I have no right to disrespect anyone who has served in the Armed Forces...quite the opposite. My grandma's brother (1st generation American)
lost a leg in WWI. My mom learned to talk down in Virginia, witha Southern accent (Brooklyn girl)

because my grandpa was stationed there doing architectural work for the Navy. I can tell you many more stories, not alal of them so tame...I have relatives in Israel, as well, but that's a whole other novel......

Your points....they are excellent points.

As 1 woman to another, Peace to my sister.

xxxCherylFaithxxx

PS I like your new avatar!
​

 

[missworld]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Please, by all means, continue with the ridiculous uber-liberal diatribes. That's fine. I don't share your view point and honestly, I think your viewpoint is expensive and a lot less than rational. But that's okay, because you're entitled to it.

Well my view point is expensive... So are BGM-109s but I digress.
uber-liberal diatribes? Well you clearly value money over humanity.

Other countries manage a national health system are you saying that our country could not do as well or better than they do... Interesting..


missworld