2008 Presidential Candidates Comparison ( Side By side)... DOn't know what to think.

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by missworld Not so, I have expressed disgust at you and you little clique's self serving attitude. I respect the fact taht you have a right to that opinion.

I'm not sure which clique you're referring to.
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Not so, in any way! The overkill millions spent on high tech. weaponry such as cruise missiles do nothing to protect a soldier from an IED.

But...you said you would.
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Furthermore I believe we need cruise missiles! But do we need this many? 4170 missiles Total program cost (TY$) $11,210M Average unit cost (TY$) $1.4M ref1 ref2 $11210M But we can't afford to at least help those less fortunate with survival health care?

Where are you from that the indigent don't get health care??

 

[SkylarV217]

Quote:

Originally Posted by missworld Not so, I have expressed disgust at you and you little clique's self serving attitude. I respect the fact taht you have a right to that opinion.

Just b/c a group of people tend to agree in a particular thread does not make them a clique, if you will look at other "controversial" threads you will find there are areas where we strongly disagree.

Self serving? Because I don't want government run healthcare? In less than 1 year My family and I will all be under tricare. This worries me. Just because we disagree doesn't mean we should think we know the other person or feel that we have a right to judge their motives.

I think highly of those people ( like you & princessa ) that are so passionate about EVERY American Being taken care of. I simply don't the the government is capable at this time.

 

[kimmy]

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Originally Posted by renoir Well, considering the enormous debt our government has because of the war, it makes sense to raise taxes. The government can't just 'ignore' it away. The 'no tax' stuff is the only thing McCain's got going for him. People hate taxes. He wins. However, it's not really responsible to pass over the debt to the future generations.

if you compare the amount of debt incurred by the war on terror and the amount of debt incurred by providing social programs to illegal aliens, the latter FAR outweighs the former.

 

[SkylarV217]

Did anyone else get irritated with the " My Friends" at the beginning of every response?

 

[SkylarV217]

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Originally Posted by kimmy if you compare the amount of debt incurred by the war on terror and the amount of debt incurred by providing social programs to illegal aliens, the latter FAR outweighs the former.

This is irritating me greatly as well... Neither of the candidates are addressing the problem of Illegal Immigration and the devastating effects it is having on our economy.

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkylarV217 This is irritating me greatly as well... Neither of the candidates are addressing the problem of Illegal Immigration and the devastating effects it is having on our economy.

of course they aren't talking about illegal immigration, they're too busy robbing me of the American dream.

 

[creoloeprincess]

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Originally Posted by Brittni With all that ridiculous tax info on Obama, it almost makes me want to vote McCain. I know we won't get much "CHANGE" but I'd rather have no change for four years then a complete disruption and expense. lol Is this tax money gonna go towards the Social Security that's not even going to be there for me when it's my time? pft

THE DOW JONES DROPPED ALMOST 700 points!! if you dont want change from that then you must want a great depression haha

 

[missworld]

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Originally Posted by *Stargazer* That's news to me. I always thought that Tricare, Medicare and Medicaid were federally (or jointly funded with the states in the case of Medicaid) funded.

I thought you were referring to full socialized/government run medicals systems such as the British NHS and before you do attack it, I lived in Britain for a while back in the eighties and seeing a doctor there is like seeing one here but without the payment at the end of it!

As for Medicaid, I had Medicaid and I saw the same doctor at the same high quality practice that I see now with my private insurance. So for me at least it worked well.


missworld

 

[TISH1124]

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Originally Posted by SkylarV217 Did anyone else get irritated with the " My Friends" at the beginning of every response?

Yeah after the 22nd time it became a bit annoying, My friend

 

[kimmy]

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Originally Posted by creoloeprincess THE DOW JONES DROPPED ALMOST 700 points!! if you dont want change from that then you must want a great depression haha

i wouldn't bet a dime on obama saving us from a depression.

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Originally Posted by missworld I lived in Britain for a while back in the eighties and seeing a doctor there is like seeing one here but without the payment at the end of it!

that was in the eighties. the world is a different place now. in the eighties, i was a mere infant...now i'm an adult, paying taxes, working and going to college. twenty years means a big difference in this world.

 

[missworld]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer I'm not sure which clique you're referring to.

right...

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Originally Posted by Shimmer But...you said you would.

Quote me, where I said that!

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Originally Posted by Shimmer Where are you from that the indigent don't get health care??

And who said indigent? I said someone less fortunate and if you are seriously ill without health insurance I'd say you were less fortunate than me.
Try to keep up.

Anyway, it's late on this coast and some of us do have jobs to go to tomorrow so good night.


missworld

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by missworld right...

I would love elaboration, as you've made a serious accusation.
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Quote me, where I said that!

http://specktra.net/1325549-post500.html
Prior to your edit, of course.
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And who said indigent? I said someone less fortunate and if you are seriously ill without health insurance I'd say you were less fortunate than me. Try to keep up.

Try to keep up...health care IS available for those without coverage. It's called either sliding scale, or essentially charity.
It's also called CareNow, Minute Clinic, and whatever.
If you want, I'll type slow so I don't overwhelm you.
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Anyway, it's late on this coast and some of us do have jobs to go to tomorrow so good night. missworld

Sleep well, it'll help you wake up in a better disposition.

 

[lizardprincesa]

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Originally Posted by kimmy if you compare the amount of debt incurred by the war on terror and the amount of debt incurred by providing social programs to illegal aliens, the latter FAR outweighs the former.

Kimmy...I think you are inviting me to write my opinions and facts here?

I know I am not that important....
But most of us do not want to do stoop labor in the onion fields, or risk the pain & injuries incurred by picking oranges from the midst of spikey thorny trees ....Breathe in pesticides and have a shorter Life because the grower did not provide the proper pesticide information/protection....Some of the children who are *inter*- state migrant workers (legally US citizens) live right on the edge of these fields, and share a bathroom with 15 other families....But every State is different...slowly, laws are being implemented, or they were...Last I knew, in NY State, bathrooms were finally required if more than 5 (?) workers toiled in a certain field all Day...Some wash dishes for sub-minimum wage in the back of a dirty restaurant kitchen...or perhaps 2 or 3 of these jobs combined...

I do not have numbers in front of me, but I have worked as an educational advocate/ Adolescent Outreach Supervisor with seasonal/migrant farmworkers (for several years, here in NY State) & I can tell you...The people who perform stoop labor in the fields from SunRise to Sunset, live spartanly, and send the majority of their earnings home, so their families in rural areas can have food, clothing, and maybe even access to secondary education.....The people with whom I worked were in no way entitled to Social Service benefits, or anything other than charity or grant (non gov't) funded programs...As far as I know... ..Maybe it is different in Texas. I will research tomorrow. Maybe I don't understand you, Kimmy....& you have seen I am not really good at arguing, especially late at Night. I don't want to add dissonance to an already heated thread, but...
I have years' of personal experience in working with people who have risked their lives to be able to feed their families.
These people are among the most wonderful, kind, hospitable people i have ever met.

The "illegal aliens" to whom you refer....perhaps are not the people who arrive from the South??

You do know that these very same people must pay all the same taxes which are subtracted from our American paychecks, but they are unable to claim anything back. But they're grateful to have work. I have visited rural Mexico a number of times, (not the beach), & I have been taken in by the families of these humble people. On one occasion, not until I had left and returned to the States, did I discover I had slept for an entire week in the bed of a person who had slept outside ( parts of rural Central Mexico get very cold at Night in January; it even Snows sometimes.) In another house, I was provided with an entire bedroom which I found out only by accident, was actually the bedroom of 3 young men, who had stayed in their parents' one room with their younger siblings for several nights, while I was given the comfort of my own private room in their house...I feel so guilty...

Here in NY State,
I have been given food, including hot, fresh, homemade tortillas, made by a group of young people who had toiled all Day in the fields (and I would have been considered rude to have refused) on a weekly basis, while out doing my rounds with the tutors with whom I worked.

In no way can i possibly enumerate the kindnesses which I received for
doing little more than asking how people were, if they needed anything we could provide, if they were alright. My wage in this program, although I was certified as a teacher for secondary ed., was far less than the average starting salary of a new teacher. I learned innumerable lessons, tho...I think
I became a bit more humble (although I may not sound that way right now); i learned to communicate in Spanish fluently, but most importantly, I
learned about the risks people take for love...I learned about advocacy, as well, a skill I need constantly in the present era of my Journey.

I never ever mean to sound self-righteous. If I come across as such, I'm sorry. In person, I don't think you would think so. I think I need to be less apologetic, as it probably weakens my points....BUT

My writing here is not about me, or *should* not be. Next time you're eating a salad or a sweet, juicey orange, (not only you, kimmy) please stop for a second and think about where it came from. Before I worked for the program, I was completely unaware. I was comfortable, in a 2 person household, with two incomes, no children, and had I made time to know about MAC, I could have bought a bunch. The people you are talking about here, "illegally" here as they may be, are simply trying to help their families survive, as their own governments make this difficult...

I have not written well here. I can discuss this point for hours & write with much more eloquence, but I'm very tired. Life has been nothing but stress,
lately. *I think one reason this forum is full of negativity at the moment (at least a thread here & there, not *all* of Specktra) is due to the fact that *many* of us are really stressed out.

Yes, please call me a "bleeding Heart (does she always have to capitalize "Heart"?

liberal." I will take it as a compliment. I am far from perfect; we all have our prejudices. I hope i can shed mine someDay, but I can 't hope for perfection, as I never will be even close...

Oh, & if you were referring to me....? in a post earlier...I *think* maybe you were, but forgive me if I'm wrong. Am I "princessa" ?

Kimmy, I am no princess, that is for sure. (In Spanish, it's spelled "princesa"...)

If I'm incorrect and you'd like to show me figures that illustrate how "illegal aliens" avail themselves of social programs which cost more than the "War on terror," feel free. I'll probably be too busy to see it, or too tired to fight it.

If anybody does a Google on living conditions of Migrant Farmworkers, or anything similar, you might feel slightly differently.

I needed Sleep, but I had to defend my friends.

Peace to you and to everybody, CherylFaith (lizardprincesa)

 

[lizardprincesa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkylarV217 This is irritating me greatly as well... Neither of the candidates are addressing the problem of Illegal Immigration and the devastating effects it is having on our economy.

I think people need to take another look at the "food chain" ...What will it do to our economy if the people who come in to work here without legal documents are simply not here? In certain sectors, where machinery has not fully replaced people's manual labour, what devastating effects will the absence of these people do to our economy? ?

CherylFaith

 

[lizardprincesa]

Sweet Dreams, everybody. may you all be comfortable and happy & enjoy your Night/Day ....oh, and Peace!

CherylFaith (far from perfect)

laugh at me if it makes you feel good. I'm too tired & too busy to worry about it. Wherever a group of people convenes, the same type of dynamics will emerge.
​

 

[kimmy]

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Originally Posted by lizardprincesa The "illegal aliens" to whom you refer....perhaps are not the people who arrive from the South??

i live in the southern half of a state that borders mexico. the ones i refer to are indeed arriving from the south.

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Originally Posted by lizardprincesa The people you are talking about here, "illegally" here as they may be, are simply trying to help their families survive, as their own governments make this difficult...

i believe people can overcome. i believe people should overcome. running away doesn't solve anything. staying, fighting, building...that solves something. so some of these people were dealt a shitty hand, i don't feel that i should be made to rectify that situation. it isn't my fault and it isn't my burden to bear...well, the government has made it my burden to bear, but it shouldn't be mine to bear.

my government is making it hard for me to buy a house. can i go rob a bank to pay for one? hey, i'm just trying to survive, man!

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Originally Posted by lizardprincesa Oh, & if you were referring to me....? in a post earlier...I *think* maybe you were, but forgive me if I'm wrong. Am I "princessa" ? Kimmy, I am no princess, that is for sure. (In Spanish, it's spelled "princesa"...)

i wasn't refering to you. i know how things are spelled in spanish, my surroundings have forced me to learn the language, unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by lizardprincesa If anybody does a Google on living conditions of Migrant Farmworkers, or anything similar, you might feel slightly differently.

i won't, because i have before. i didn't ask anyone to come here illegally. these people made the choice on their own.

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Originally Posted by lizardprincesa I think people need to take another look at the "food chain" ...What will it do to our economy if the people who come in to work here without legal documents are simply not here? In certain sectors, where machinery has not fully replaced people's manual labour, what devastating effects will the absence of these people do to our economy? ?

have you read up on the unemployment rate here lately? unemployed American citizens would take the jobs, i'm sure. the world is not going to come to an end if we stop taking in illegal aliens. the world didn't stop on mayday, did it?

 

[SuSana]

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Originally Posted by kimmy have you read up on the unemployment rate here lately? unemployed American citizens would take the jobs, i'm sure. the world is not going to come to an end if we stop taking in illegal aliens. the world didn't stop on mayday, did it?

I'm sorry but I highly doubt that. That is work that nobody wants to do. You're right, nobody forces them to come here, but if they had a choice I know for a fact they would never choose those jobs, and no American citizen would willingly do those jobs.

 

[kimmy]

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Originally Posted by SuSana I'm sorry but I highly doubt that. That is work that nobody wants to do. You're right, nobody forces them to come here, but if they had a choice I know for a fact they would never choose those jobs, and no American citizen would willingly do those jobs.

it's better than nothing. the jobs will get done if they're there. i really think if they're not being taken by immigrants, a citizen that doesn't have any other options will take those jobs.

of course, there's only one way to find that out and unfortunately i don't know if we'll ever get that opportunity since all the politicians are making billions of dollars off of immigrant workers.

 

[red]

I live outside NYC, in Orange County, onion country

I experience the migrant workers almost daily from planting season to harvest. Many live right here, hard working good people. I appreciate their hard work, and never take it for granted.

However, I don't support some of the immigration reform, I don't think is fair for someone who jumped over the fence (migrant workers are a different story), arrived here illegally to be blessed and allowed to stay here without any repercussion.

I have very little sympathy ... tell you why.

I AM AN IMMIGRANT!!!! we waited on a quota system for 10 years to come to the US. We had a medical exam, had to prove we were financially sound to live in the US ... we went through the legal channels, waited patiently until we were called. When I went to school, I didn't have bi-lingual education, I was thrown into the deep end of the pool not understanding a word of English

We asked for no handouts, my father worked, paid taxes, I learned English, we assimilated into this society, we gave back. I'm proud of my heritage, but I'm red, white & blue, stars & stripes for ever, and this is why this democrat, is voting for John McCain.

 

[ShugAvery2001]

I think that, one thing alot of you need to understand is, WE LIVE IN A GLOBAL SOCIETY! There are no boarders anymore. And it's not just in the U.S. either. it's going on in Europe and China, it's going on everywhere. I don't think some of you all appreciate just how much it sucks to live in a developing country as opposed to living in "the west". Many more people here have the opportunity not to be poor. In many of these countries THERE IS NO MIDDLE CLASS. Unfortunately the middle class in America is being squeezed and we're on the cusp of a GLOBAL recession. I always look at my friends white black and other who joke that if this or that candidate wins the election they'd move to canada. DUHHH. Americans take for granted their freedom to move and we take for granted that we'll be accepted anywhere in the world. it's crazy.
The U.S. will not turn into China. There will be NO great wall to keep immigrants out!
One thing I think is funny is that so many republicans hate this but, the largest influxes of immigrants from the south occured during the Regan and Bush administrations. I mean Regan granted Amnesty to 4 MILLION illigal immigrants and why .. so the 'free market' could take advantage of cheap labor.
It's unfortunate, so much of the voting public is UNAWARE of what is really taking place here.
I know why funding for education will always be insufficient. The government benifits from having an uninformed electorate. With FOX and humans tendency to encourage their viewers to make decisions based on their own irrational fears (ala mushroom cloud and bush war good), it's guaranteed that the voting public will be EASILY manipulated!

**getting off soap box**