California - Prop 8 - PASSED

[TISH1124]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC_Pixie04 The criteria for marriage should be two consenting adults, plain and simple. I don't care if you're black, white, yellow, brown, red or seafoam green. I don't care if you're gay, straight, transexual, drag queen or king, or how you live your life. If you love someone and can commit to what comes along with marriage, then I support you, case closed.

One would think as Adults you should be able make your own decisons concerning your own life

 

[MAC_Pixie04]

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Stargazer* The initiative bans unmarried couples, both heterosexual and homosexual, from fostering or adopting children. The group that proposed the law, some jerks who claim to be all about family, very specifically went out of the way to make sure people knew it was really about gays, though. Single people were not a target of the initiative.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Of course they can't vehemently make it about gays; that would make them bigots! And a family interest group can't have any bigots in it now can they?

Oh...wait....

 

[TISH1124]

I guess Angelina won't be moving to any of these States...

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC_Pixie04 Thanks for clearing that up. Of course they can't vehemently make it about gays; that would make them bigots! And a family interest group can't have any bigots in it now can they? Oh...wait....

Here's the ironic part.

Quote:

The FCAC lists three primary reasons for the law: For the safety of children, to increase the number of prospective homes, and to “blunt a homosexual agenda.” “[The Arkansas Adoption Act] is about two things. It's about child welfare, first of all. Secondly, it is to blunt a homosexual agenda that's at work in other states and that will be at work in Arkansas unless we are proactive about doing something about it,” FCAC Executive Director Jerry Cox told Fox16 News. The organization's website expands on the group's position, by saying, “Laws have been passed in eight states that support the homosexual agenda when it comes to the adoption or foster care of children. Arkansas has no law to prevent homosexual adoption. Homosexuals are adopting children and this will continue until a law is passed.”

Yes, you read that right. To INCREASE the number of prospective homes by DECREASING the available pool of people who want to foster or adopt.

 

[yodagirl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Stargazer* Here's the ironic part. Yes, you read that right. To INCREASE the number of prospective homes by DECREASING the available pool of people who want to foster or adopt.

Like I said in the other thread, I hate living in Arkansas

 

[MAC_Pixie04]

Sneaky fuckers; ban gay marriage, then ban unmarried couples from adopting. Guess what you've just done? You've just banned homosexual adoption without having to even admit it. That's just wrong on so many levels. There are so many children who need good homes and so many parents--single, married, gay and straight--who could provide those homes, and they're going to let their agenda overpower the needs of those children.

 

[rbella]

I'm really bothered by this. It is 2008 for Christ's sake. I just want the people that I love to be able to understand the joy I get to feel by being married to the love of my life. I am sad for those who don't get this opportunity because of the stubbornness of assholes who think they can regulate who can and can't be married.

 

[aziajs]

I was so sad to hear that it passed. I think it's horrible on all levels. And it really bothers me because this sets a horrible precedent. I am ashamed of a government that would give people a privilege and then turn around and revoke it. That is not right.

 

[M.A.C. head.]

It'll be overturned.

I believe that.

 

[MzzRach]

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.A.C. head. It'll be overturned. I believe that.

That's what I hope. I thought I was living in a progressive state. My bad.

 

[M.A.C. head.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MzzRach That's what I hope. I thought I was living in a progressive state. My bad.

LOL You ain't kiddin.

 

[MAC_Pixie04]

I hope it gets overturned, and I hope there's more education about what the new Prop will entail. And though it's unlikely, I hope to god that those who oppose don't stoop as low or any lower than they did this past election.

 

[AdlersMommy22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC_Pixie04 This issue infuriates me. All they wanna do is fucking get married! What is the big goddamn deal?? And I'm sick to death of the rationalizations people come up with for agreeing with overturning it. "Let's protect the sanctity of marriage," "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve," blah blah blah. How's this for protecting the sanctity of marriage: 1. Those heterosexual blabbermouths cheating on their spouses and having affairs behind theirlovers backs; how could they forget that that's one of the 10 commandments, since they wanna lean so hard on the bible. 2. How about all those quickie Vegas weddings that end in annulments three days later? Oh yes, marriage is so sacred that Britney Spears can have one that lasts 55 hours long "just to see how it felt." 3. Open marriages are a lot more common than you think; why get married to someone and take those vows and promises of exclusive love if you'll give the okay for each other to go out and fuck other people? 4. Our divorce rate is so high it sickens me; and that hardly includes homosexual couples because only one or two states allow them to marry in the first place, let alone get divorced. 5. Have you checked craigslist lately? Military men and women actively seek no strings attached partners to agree to fake a marriage in order to collect extra money and benefits for being a married couple. They get married on paper, but lead their lives otherwise normally except for in front of their other military buddies and colleagues so that they don't get caught. What a celebration of traditional marriage. 6. The out-of-wedlock baby boom! It's fantastic; I don't knock people for having babies out of wedlock, I don't give a shit what you do. But don't be so self-righteous that you wanna deny homosexual couples the right to marry and adopt children who need homes while you run around and breed like there's no tomorrow without even half a thought about marriage. There IS no more sanctity left in marriage, in my opinion, especially when there are people who would go out of their way to paint their entire van, house and front yard and even parade their children in support of this Prop 8 nonsense, which is not just an issue of gay rights vs straight rights. It's fucking HUMAN rights. All they want to do is get married and receive the same rights as every other married couple...and get this? IT'S A FAIR SHOT THAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY SERIOUS ABOUT IT! What a concept...a group that wants to get married for the real reasons of getting married, and we don't wanna let them. Land of the free my ass. I'm done being angry now

Just want to disclaimer right now that although I am against gay marriage--I am only against gay marriage in the catholic church. I believe that people who are gay should be able to get married but NOT inthe church of which some claim to be a part of if that church does not support gay marriage. I dont believe in gay marriage but that's my opinion. And that only lies in the relms of how the Catholic Church is concerned... I hope that makes sense

anyways moving on

I just wanted to hopefully give some kind of unbiased responce to some of your arguments And im not trying to start an argument- just showing you were the other side is coming from. I totally have NOTHING against gay people.. they can get "married" or have a civil union or do whatever they legally want to do as far as Im concerned

1. I totally agree with what you're saying, but not everyone who is proclaiming those things is cheating on their wives/husbands. There are people who fallow (or at least try their HARDEST... there is such thing as human error) the ten commandments... and who honestly believe religiously that its not the right thing

2. Not all annulments are religious. People can get LEGALLY annuled- so its not safe to assume that britney got an annulment from the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church, in fact, is very very strict on their reasons for annulments.

3. Just because open marriages are common doesn't make them right- just like my first point, not everyone who disagrees with gay marriage cheats on their spouce or is involved sexually with someone else while married

4. I totally agree. Divorce rate is EXTREAMLY high. It's bullshit. It sickens me how disrespectfull people now are toward the idea of marriage. I know in some cases there is no choice but to get out of the marriage but... it makes me sad how many families are torn apart because of it. No argument there!

5. Again, I agree with your statements on these. But I have to go back to pt's 3 and 1-- not everyone does those things. Just because people do them, doesnt make them right And people who ARENT and dont believe that gay marriage is religiously acceptable shouldnt be put into any kind of group such as these.

6. I have personally disagree with this statement to a point. I totally agree that its RIDICLOUS not to led gay couples adopt. What a horrible horrible horrible tradgedy. As someone who is against abortion, it saddens me that those babies who are put up for adoption are being denied a loving home by a loving family.
However...
I myself am a single mom... and I personlly dont know if maybe you were directing this towards other people- or another group besides the one im in- but I take a little offense towards part of your statment. PERSONALLY, I was engaged to be married when I got pregnant and my fiance told me to get rid of my child or he'd never speak to me again. Ive never spoken to him sense. I did give a regard towards marriage and was planning my wedding up until something happened that religiously-personally.. FOR ME.. pushed me in another direction.

I hope that all makes sense

I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. Like I said previously- just so that there's no doubt.. I have NOTHING against gay people. some of my greatest friends are gay and they are NO different than heterosexuals!!! ... I support gay "marriage" (i only put that in quotes because to me, a marriage is between a man and a woman. TO ME) or gay unions. Whatever! I think if two adults love eachother then good for them! yay!! =) Yay for love- there should be more of it!! I just dont support them getting married in the Catholic Church. Im not the perfect Catholic-- and God knows Ive made my fair share of mistakes, but I do believe in most sanctities of the Church and getting married on the alter of the church by a priest-- TO ME that should be between a man and a woman.

Anywhere else you want to get married-- knock yourself out!!!!!!!

K.. off my soap box now!!

 

[TISH1124]

^^ Girl, You know my attention span is short...That was too long ^^

 

[AdlersMommy22]

I know- you know I have this problem with rambling to get my pt. across.

I had a bad problem with not being very accepting (or at least- not coming OFF as very accepting) of other peoples beliefs that made me really re-evalute how good of a person I was if I was not accepting other people.. so now I like to just make sure that everyone understand that just because I dont agree with someone 100% doesnt mean that I dont think its right for YOU.. (you meaning- whoever.).... so i get paranoid when I post things in topics like this now lol

but im too damn opinionated to just keep my mouth shut.

 

[*Stargazer*]

I'm pretty sure the last thing on these peoples' minds is getting married in the Catholic Church. They are seeking legal, civil marriages, not religious ones.

 

[TISH1124]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 I know- you know I have this problem with rambling to get my pt. across. I had a bad problem with not being very accepting (or at least- not coming OFF as very accepting) of other peoples beliefs that made me really re-evalute how good of a person I was if I was not accepting other people.. so now I like to just make sure that everyone understand that just because I dont agree with someone 100% doesnt mean that I dont think its right for YOU.. (you meaning- whoever.).... so i get paranoid when I post things in topics like this now lol but im too damn opinionated to just keep my mouth shut.

Girl please...The only voice that is heard is the one that speaks up!

Let it out! Everyone else does!

 

[MAC_Pixie04]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 Just want to disclaimer right now that although I am against gay marriage--I am only against gay marriage in the catholic church. I believe that people who are gay should be able to get married but NOT inthe church of which some claim to be a part of if that church does not support gay marriage. I dont believe in gay marriage but that's my opinion. And that only lies in the relms of how the Catholic Church is concerned... I hope that makes sense anyways moving on I just wanted to hopefully give some kind of unbiased responce to some of your arguments And im not trying to start an argument- just showing you were the other side is coming from. I totally have NOTHING against gay people.. they can get "married" or have a civil union or do whatever they legally want to do as far as Im concerned 1. I totally agree with what you're saying, but not everyone who is proclaiming those things is cheating on their wives/husbands. There are people who fallow (or at least try their HARDEST... there is such thing as human error) the ten commandments... and who honestly believe religiously that its not the right thing 2. Not all annulments are religious. People can get LEGALLY annuled- so its not safe to assume that britney got an annulment from the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church, in fact, is very very strict on their reasons for annulments. 3. Just because open marriages are common doesn't make them right- just like my first point, not everyone who disagrees with gay marriage cheats on their spouce or is involved sexually with someone else while married 4. I totally agree. Divorce rate is EXTREAMLY high. It's bullshit. It sickens me how disrespectfull people now are toward the idea of marriage. I know in some cases there is no choice but to get out of the marriage but... it makes me sad how many families are torn apart because of it. No argument there! 5. Again, I agree with your statements on these. But I have to go back to pt's 3 and 1-- not everyone does those things. Just because people do them, doesnt make them right And people who ARENT and dont believe that gay marriage is religiously acceptable shouldnt be put into any kind of group such as these. 6. I have personally disagree with this statement to a point. I totally agree that its RIDICLOUS not to led gay couples adopt. What a horrible horrible horrible tradgedy. As someone who is against abortion, it saddens me that those babies who are put up for adoption are being denied a loving home by a loving family. However... I myself am a single mom... and I personlly dont know if maybe you were directing this towards other people- or another group besides the one im in- but I take a little offense towards part of your statment. PERSONALLY, I was engaged to be married when I got pregnant and my fiance told me to get rid of my child or he'd never speak to me again. Ive never spoken to him sense. I did give a regard towards marriage and was planning my wedding up until something happened that religiously-personally.. FOR ME.. pushed me in another direction. I hope that all makes sense I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. Like I said previously- just so that there's no doubt.. I have NOTHING against gay people. some of my greatest friends are gay and they are NO different than heterosexuals!!! ... I support gay "marriage" (i only put that in quotes because to me, a marriage is between a man and a woman. TO ME) or gay unions. Whatever! I think if two adults love eachother then good for them! yay!! =) Yay for love- there should be more of it!! I just dont support them getting married in the Catholic Church. Im not the perfect Catholic-- and God knows Ive made my fair share of mistakes, but I do believe in most sanctities of the Church and getting married on the alter of the church by a priest-- TO ME that should be between a man and a woman. Anywhere else you want to get married-- knock yourself out!!!!!!! K.. off my soap box now!!

As unfair as it may sound, in those points that I'm making, I'm using slight generalizations. I know that not all people cheat and not all people have open marriages, and not all military marriages are scams. But the number of people who've admittedly had affairs and cheated and partake in sexual escapades outside of their marriage are particularly high, so I think it's unfair for a dominant group--and i'm talking heterosexuals in general, because I doubt many if any gay people were in favor of this Proposition--to deny a minority group the same rights because that group will be desecrating "traditional marriage" when we've BEEN desecrating marriage SINCE the biblical periods.

And I'm not against single parenthood; I think I may have phrased that point wrong. I have an issue with people spouting this bullshit about protecting marriage and the sanctity of marriage, but it seems to only apply to gays wanting to have the same rights when it comes to marriage. You don't see people vehemently "against" single parenthood. You don't see people taking political action against having children before getting married. I don't even think it's possible to pass legislation against infidelity. Those are things that seem to mar "traditional" marriage; so why is there such a big outrage about same sex marriage? Why does that seem to be the only concern people have when it comes to "protecting marriage?" Let's outlaw divorce, then. Let's have mandatory time periods, where you have to be with someone for so long before you can marry them or have children with them. Doesn't that seem ridiculous?

Well to me, so does denying anybody the rights that everybody else has. I'm not saying that every married person does the things that I mentioned, but a lot of them do and don't see it as wrong, but make such a big deal out of gay marriage.

 

[AdlersMommy22]

^haha I know.. but then I get yelled at for using nothing but emotional rhetoric and blah blah.. and i just get scared of offending other people.. Because I really do <3 ya'll!!

and trust me stargazer.. im totally aware of that haha.. Im just saying that in my personal belief that should be the ONLY limitation on gay marriage I know no one is probably seeking out for the Pope to approve their marriage in the Church... I was just explaining how that was the only way i believed gay marriage shouldnt be allowed.. any way else Im 100% in support!!!!!

 

[AdlersMommy22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC_Pixie04 As unfair as it may sound, in those points that I'm making, I'm using slight generalizations. I know that not all people cheat and not all people have open marriages, and not all military marriages are scams. But the number of people who've admittedly had affairs and cheated and partake in sexual escapades outside of their marriage are particularly high, so I think it's unfair for a dominant group--and i'm talking heterosexuals in general, because I doubt many if any gay people were in favor of this Proposition--to deny a minority group the same rights because that group will be desecrating "traditional marriage" when we've BEEN desecrating marriage SINCE the biblical periods. And I'm not against single parenthood; I think I may have phrased that point wrong. I have an issue with people spouting this bullshit about protecting marriage and the sanctity of marriage, but it seems to only apply to gays wanting to have the same rights when it comes to marriage. You don't see people vehemently "against" single parenthood. You don't see people taking political action against having children before getting married. I don't even think it's possible to pass legislation against infidelity. Those are things that seem to mar "traditional" marriage; so why is there such a big outrage about same sex marriage? Why does that seem to be the only concern people have when it comes to "protecting marriage?" Let's outlaw divorce, then. Let's have mandatory time periods, where you have to be with someone for so long before you can marry them or have children with them. Doesn't that seem ridiculous? Well to me, so does denying anybody the rights that everybody else has. I'm not saying that every married person does the things that I mentioned, but a lot of them do and don't see it as wrong, but make such a big deal out of gay marriage.

Im glad you explained! And I have to tell you that in the instances you speak of I completely agree that no one has the right to judge anyone... Almost like... dont throw stones in glass houses .. is that the right phrase?