Does this offend you?

[lizardprincesa]

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Originally Posted by Aprilrobin Some people think it is true, but it is not fact. There are rumors that say Hitler's grandfather was Jewish by product of his grandmother having an affair, but absolutely no evidence.

All it would do, if the "rumour" has any basis in fact (I *will* research; I should have done so before I posted that) is add to the fact that
he was evil personified.

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The truth is probably that Hitler hid that part of his family's history because of a lineage of mental retardation any various forms of mental illness and retardation. If anything, there seems to be evidence to support that as the truth.

Syphilis had something to do with the mental illness, is what I have heard. Perhaps it is yet another rumour.

As for Trisomy 21 or any other form of developmental chromosonal anomoly,
I've heard that, as well. Absolutely, he would have wanted that to be hidden.

I find it difficult to remain emotionally detached from a subject so truly part of the Human Experience. I think most of us feel similarly, from what people have posted.

I also find it difficult due to very personal association.

My beautiful & dynamic child, who has Trisomy 21, but is not retarded...(how can a child be called "retarded" if he is only 4 & is reading?); (it remains to be seen how far he is "delayed" in some areas....I digress...) but yes...
My son, my husband (who is not Jewish, but would be guilty by association with us) and I, Jewish
by birth, would likely have been murdered in those camps.

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There's a lot of popular stories about Hitler, such as his supposed homosexuality, that are just that - stories.

Stories which change nothing. I probably shouldn't have mentioned the possible Judaism in his bloodline. If he were homosexual, nothing would be different about the evil he was.

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It also offends some people when the disinformation regarding his jewish ancestry is furthered.

I imagine so. but I am Jewish by birth, & I don't actually care whether he had Jewish blood or not. He was still one of history's greatest evils.

I appreciate your viewpoints.

CherylFaith

 

[lizardprincesa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aprilrobin I'm Jewish and my grandmother, her sister and mother were Polish holocaust surviviors.

i am truly sorry for your family's suffering. I grew up knowing about it, as it hit so close to home...I remember my grandmother talking about cousins...and aunts...

We have similar lineage, Aprilrobin. I have, in my background, Polish/Chech/Austria/Hungary/& German (yes!) blood on one side.
My grandfather was born in Jerusalem, when it was under the Ottoman Empire, so on his side, I have all the same Eastern European blood, comingled with Russian and Israeli! Yes, I am so proud to say I am 1/4 Sabra.

I don't follow my religion (or any organized religion) but I am proud to be a cultural Jew. This is who I am.

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Somehow, I don't think Hitler would appreciate this feminization and that's fine with me.

Do you really care what he thought? I don't think so. But I agree with you.

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It's funny. Don't take life so seriously - nobody gets out alive.

Sorry...too close to my Heart to laugh at. But no,

"...no one here gets out Alive..." The Doors

xxxxCherylFaithxxx
​

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkylarV217 To be honest, I may be wrong, But I believe the people that consider or called the OP Ill Informed or immature were not referring to finding the picture comical but rather .... Insisting that people should Chill the F*** out and "Get over it".... Implying that people had no right to be offended by the photo. I may be wrong but I feel like that is why they are saying she is Ill Informed.

I think having the first post include something like "Chill the F***" out is pretty immature, honestly, regardless of the topic, and it isn't conducive to learning why people would find it offended, because it sounds like the OP already had his/her mind made up.

 

[badkittekitte]

what ever happen to her freedom of speech? its just a picture..thats all. people can be offended...thats their freedom but its also her freedom to post it. the picture has him in makeup, not worshiping or praising him...thats it.

 

[Beauty Mark]

They can't legally do anything about her picture (unless it violates a TOS to which she agreed).

But anyone who is against it is legally within their rights to complain to her (as long as it doesn't go into threats or harassment), ask her to take it down, etc.

Her right and everyone else's rights are still intact, AFAIK.

 

[lizardprincesa]

I'd find it really cool if poster #1 were to post an apology. If she is a mainly caring and compassionate person, she probably feels desperately embarrassed by now...She asked for Enlightenment and she did receive.
If she were to swallow her pride & *possible* feelings of humiliation (I should not assume anything she may feel, I *know*), & post an informed apology for having offended a great many people, I would thank her. i hope you hear me, poster #1; "Astronaut," I believe you are.

I've written these words with the assumption that the poster has learned a few new things about the world. I hope she returns. I will be the first person to forgive if I am here & awake...

I realize my post(s) are not exactly the most popular of this thread, but I am certainly imperfect, as well as sensitive & emotional...Again, if I have offended *anyone,* it was not my intention. Please forgive me.


CherylFaith

 

[rbella]

Quote:

Originally Posted by badkittekitte what ever happen to her freedom of speech? its just a picture..thats all. people can be offended...thats their freedom but its also her freedom to post it. the picture has him in makeup, not worshiping or praising him...thats it.

I'm not really concerned with the fact that she used the avatar. That is her deal. I don't hate or judge her for it. At the same time, I don't really like it.

But, I do think that freedom of speech extends to those who are super pissed that the avatar is being used. Especially if a thread was started specifically asking everyone if they "are offended". That means the OP has to be open to criticism.

 

[ratmist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullWroth Question: Why does someone not sharing your sense of humor automatically get considered ill-informed or naive? Everyone has different limits on their sense of humor. Some people have very strict limits and feel that you should never laugh about certain things, and other people feel that one needs to be able to laugh at the worst of humanity or we become as uptight and paranoid as all those dictators were and start another round. Others still need to laugh at their demons as a form of catharsis. None of the above groups are wrong. So again, while I'm enjoying the debate about whether or not putting the Hitler picture up was a good idea, and why people are or aren't getting offended, I'm a little disturbed by the condescension and posturing going on here. Aw, you thought the picture was funny? Poor little dear, you must be so naive. Those of us making serious faces know better. Being offended by the picture does not make you more mature or better-informed about the war. It just means there are some things you don't find funny, while other people still do. Whether or not anyone here is more mature, better-informed, or in better taste than anyone else... well, that depends on far more than "Do you think this picture is funny?"

Fucking *precisely*.

I would KISS you through my monitor if I could.

 

[ratmist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbella I'm not really concerned with the fact that she used the avatar. That is her deal. I don't hate or judge her for it. At the same time, I don't really like it. But, I do think that freedom of speech extends to those who are super pissed that the avatar is being used. Especially if a thread was started specifically asking everyone if they "are offended". That means the OP has to be open to criticism.

I have no problem with someone limiting their responses to the use of the avatar - which is precisely the kind of response you've stated above. All very well and good and fine.

But I think there's a huge difference between an answer to the question "Are you offended?" that criticises the use of the avatar, and criticism of the OP and anyone else as a person who finds the avatar only mildly or non-offensive.

It's the latter that I've seen throughout this thread, and I think it's crap. Others think it's wholly justified given the subject matter. And in the end, that's the whole starting point for people who eventually argue for censureship. "It is offensive to me" gets made equivalent to "I have the right to not be offended" - and it's that sentiment I completely and utterly abhor.

 

[ratmist]

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Originally Posted by lizardprincesa I'd find it really cool if poster #1 were to post an apology. If she is a mainly caring and compassionate person, she probably feels desperately embarrassed by now...She asked for Enlightenment and she did receive. If she were to swallow her pride & *possible* feelings of humiliation (I should not assume anything she may feel, I *know*), & post an informed apology for having offended a great many people, I would thank her. i hope you hear me, poster #1; "Astronaut," I believe you are.

I don't think she should apologise to anyone. She has no a priori reason to feel any of the things you've stated.

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Originally Posted by lizardprincesa I've written these words with the assumption that the poster has learned a few new things about the world. I hope she returns. I will be the first person to forgive if I am here & awake...

Oh how magnanimous of you. Honestly, are you trying to be patronising, or is it an accident?

 

[user79]

I don't think an apology is owed. She made it clear she is not endorsing Hitler's actions at all. She was asking on people's opinions of the avatar, which she received both positive and negative feedback to. However, some people don't take well to parody or black humour. Same reason why some people get offended at South Park or similar shows.

If I look hard enough, I could probably find hundreds of things that offend me. I don't ask those people to apologize because I got offended at something.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by lizardprincesa Yes. You said that *really* well, Shimmer. But I would ask her to remove it. Cheryl Faith

but see, here's the thing.

You have the right to be offended. Of course.
You also have the right to avoid her profile and, if you're using the appropriate browser, rightclickblock the image and NEVER look at it again.


My issue isn't so much the usage, though I consider it tasteless...everyone to their own, I suppose. My issue is the dismissiveness of the attitudes regarding Hitler's actions.

Asking her to remove it is, IMO, across the line.

 

[lizardprincesa]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer but see, here's the thing. You have the right to be offended. Of course.

As you have seemed to be, as well, Shimmer.

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You also have the right to avoid her profile and, if you're using the appropriate browser, rightclickblock the image and NEVER look at it again.

oh, I'm not lookin'. Thanks for the tech explanation. I actually was unaware how to do that.

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My issue isn't so much the usage, though I consider it tasteless...everyone to their own, I suppose. My issue is the dismissiveness of the attitudes regarding Hitler's actions.

Yes. i agree. She is absolutely, unconscionably dismissive.

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Asking her to remove it is, IMO, across the line.

And I do understand your position & respect it.

I grew up in a home full of Holocaust horror stories. They weren't stories about other people; they were about our family.

I attended (not by choice) an Orthodox Synagogue, where many elderly people who attended were Holocaust survivors, most of whom had lost family members in the holocaust.
I'm completely unable to be dispassionate.

But i do understand what you're saying.

CF

 

[missworld]

Where exactly did she say in her post that she thought that Hitlers actions were funny or cute? She never once said that she thought what Hitler did was something to laugh at.

No, she thought posting a picture of one of the most sick and evil men ever to live on a public forum for no other reason that it had been doctored to look "funny" wouldn't cause offense to a lot of people?

When it did cause offense, she, you and others defended it!

Basically you are saying this image may upset and cause distress to a lot of people but we don't give a **** because we think it's funny.

Get a clue: Hitler and his kind are not a joke, they are evil!

Don't insult Monty Python by comparing them to the actions of this foolish girl!



missworld

 

[missworld]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Asking her to remove it is, IMO, across the line.

No, Telling her to remove it is censorship and IMHO crosses the line.
Asking her to remove it is part of a dialog.


missworld.

 

[purrtykitty]

This is the problem in this discussion - too many people think their opinion is the only one that matters. They are right and anyone who disagrees is ill-informed, ignorant, "foolish", etc. No one here knows where each of us comes from (unless we've volunteered that information), knows our background or education level. So to make broad, sweeping statements lumping anyone who simply disagrees is rather "foolish" in my book. I don't think anyone here has agreed with her statement to "Chill the f*** out". The disagreement has been about whether the photo is personally offending. Who is anyone to tell me my opinion is wrong?

 

[lizardprincesa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratmist ... Oh how magnanimous of you. Honestly, are you trying to be patronising, or is it an accident?

Accident.
I am not trying to be patronizing at all. Sorry if anybody interpreted my words that way.

 

[missworld]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous However, some people don't take well to parody or black humour. Same reason why some people get offended at South Park or similar shows.

The difference is you had a choice whether or not you watch south part etc.
If you come on to your favorite forum, click on a post and see a picture of someone responsible for killing members of your family, that is beyond black humour, it is thoughtless and crass.

For the record, the war was only history to me; my grandad fought in the war and survived to a ripe old age, though I never really knew him.


missworld

 

[darkishstar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by missworld The difference is you had a choice whether or not you watch south part etc. If you come on to your favorite forum, click on a post and see a picture of someone responsible for killing members of your family, that is beyond black humour, it is thoughtless and crass. For the record, the war was only history to me; my grandad fought in the war and survived to a ripe old age, though I never really knew him. missworld

There is so much offense at seeing an image of Hitler. But NOT wanting to see any images of Hitler is naive as well. I for one actually think that though the humor may be tasteless, doesn't it still bring attention to one of the most despicable men in history? It doesn't let people forget he existed or the wrongs and sins he committed to humanity, even if it is a poorly thought of image. We should NOT forget the wrongs he committed. The fact that you feel offended as many others do means that yes, the image is doing what it intends. It does not let you forget and it still reminds you of the horrors, ones that we should NEVER forget.

The thing is, if people were so offended that they didn't even want to see images of Hitler, then this should apply to history texts or articles because your reason is "it's too painful to look at him." Then you leave room for forgetting about what happened in history, then you allow the same thing to happen again. By not wanting to see such an image also means you're trying to hide a painful part of history because yes it was painful, but we never benefit from hiding or ignoring anything painful. Just because you are offended, people should not have to hide the image. I think that the image definitely serves a purpose, even if it is offensive. That's what it's meant to be offensive. Sorry to say, but no one has to remove the image to protect or not offend anyone.

I just feel that when you want the original OP to take it down, it's almost a desire to hide the reality of Hitler's existence because it's too painful to view. And I believe that that's not the way to go either. If you hide or ignore his existence due it being painful, you're risking later generations not seeing why Hitler became such a painful image to people in the past.

Ignoring leads exactly to what it intends. Ignorance.

 

[rbella]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratmist I have no problem with someone limiting their responses to the use of the avatar - which is precisely the kind of response you've stated above. All very well and good and fine. But I think there's a huge difference between an answer to the question "Are you offended?" that criticises the use of the avatar, and criticism of the OP and anyone else as a person who finds the avatar only mildly or non-offensive. It's the latter that I've seen throughout this thread, and I think it's crap. Others think it's wholly justified given the subject matter. And in the end, that's the whole starting point for people who eventually argue for censureship. "It is offensive to me" gets made equivalent to "I have the right to not be offended" - and it's that sentiment I completely and utterly abhor.

Ok, I think that there is a severe miscommunication between the two us. I wholly agree with the above statement, but that has not been my stance, nor the stance of quite a few on here.

I don't think that getting pissed off because people are telling us to "chill the f*ck out" when our opinion is asked and being offended at statements like "WWII isn't really even relevant" is the same as bashing someone just b/c they think the avatar is funny.


I will make my statement one last time:

If you find that avatar funny, it doesn't affect me one way or the other. That is your choice. I don't like the avatar, but I don't particularly care, nor does it really bother me if you do. If you use this avatar or this thread as an example for your argument that WWII, Hitler or any other historical event is irrelevant, then yes, it affects me and I strongly believe I have the right to voice my opinion telling you so.