I love when customers try to tell me how to do my job...

xIxSkyDancerxIx

Well-known member
Quote:
Not sure about other Asians like Indians, but for Chinese (am one) we tend to do the "just looking" thing because of the following reasons:

a. We like to huddle around and yak about a product. It's fun, even when the whole group knows that everyone involved in the yakking knows jack about the product. We also bond by giving each other questionable make up advice. The person offering advice feels like she's helping her friend and the friend compliments the person for her advice. Everybody wins!...sort of.

b. It intimidates us that someone who obviously possess superior knowledge on make up, wears a full face (some of you, anyway) and dons full uniform (all black for MAC) approaches us. We freak out on the inside and try to avoid you by saying "just looking". Also it is partly because we feel very awkward when someone offers you help and invest time to explain things to and try things on you, and you don't really intend buy their products. My experience in Hong Kong is if an SA in any kind of store offers you help and you don't buy stuff, you get sneered at and probably even get mild forms of catty verbal abuse (depending on store and people) for wasting their time. We also believe it makes us look "cheap", a big no-no for the Asian image. So our "strategy" is to smack down any possibility of help from store employees in the first place.

c. There's no delicate way of putting this, but some of us don't trust you guys with Asian make up. It's not a race thing but a cultural preference thing. I moved to Toronto three years ago and found that the way native Chinese-Canadians (friends whose parents were from Hong Kong) do their makeup and the way native Hong Kong-ers do theirs is different. For example, MUAs and women here tend to focus on the exotic features of the Asian faces, such as almond shape eyes, and work with the yellow-ness in the skin when selecting makeup, and also make faces look more mature because mature = sexy. In Hong Kong and Japan, the stuff above is considered undesirable. We like to make eyes rounder and larger, faces whiter and paler, and we make faces look more childish and doll-like because innocent childishness = cute.(which probably explains the non-age appropriate hello kitties, squeaky voices and "V" peace signs) You can say we're not embracing our natural Asianess, you can say we're in denial about our age, but that's just how we do things over there.

d. There are still a lot of us not willing to embrace colors. Some believe that colors unnatural to your face-- that is, anything outside of neutral browns and black-- makes you stick out from the crowd and while generally Westerners consider that a good thing because it shows your individuality, Asians think that is a form of boasting and trying too hard. Also it conflicts with the ideal Asian female image: the virgin, innocent, demure, shy, never-seduces, always-passively-wooed, naturally flawless, ready-to-be-wed young lady (lol as if those really exist anymore). We think MUAs and SAs will always try to recommend some colorful stuff to us (of course not true, because most generally work with what the customers want), so we try to avoid you. Younger generations and Koreans are usually more daring, however.

e. You won't believe how little experience some Asians have with make up. Many of my friends and aunts don't even know how to use mascara. We just follow the group into the make up store and fiddle around with the paints, really.

All of the above in no way excuses behaviours like yelling at SAs and treating store employees like dogs (some believe all power lies in the one with cash in hand, which is BS), but seriously, the "just talking" thing is nothing personal. Most Asians don't even realize it's rude. In fact, some think they're doing you a favor, because they're signaling you don't have to waste time on them.

All too true. I'm Korean and being new to makeup it's a little scary going into MAC where all the MA's have full on makeup and are rocking it, and I have none. LOL. I also grew up where I was a total minority, and alot of the "white" kids would snicker and talk sh*t about me behind their backs (usually about how I looked) so I get a little nervous going in there. LoL.

Asians also have this tendancy to go with whoever seems to be our own ethnical background. EVEN IF that person has zero makeup experience, if we saw an asian person that works at MAC, all the asians would flock to him/her. It's kind of funny actually, because a lot of asians will think "oh, that person is like me, we should go to them and they'll treat us well because we're both the same." LOL.

But yah.. MA's please don't be offended by asians, especially the older gen.. a lot of times they don't mean to be offensive, but it's just the way they are. (like my mom and grandma.. crazy people) lol
 

Karen_B

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by claresauntie
Dude, there is nothin' wrong with that! I like to browse, too.

I am assuming that most places are like where I work: I need to greet you as soon as I see you (and I should! it's just polite!). And I want to see if you need help. But if you indicate, politely, that you're just browsing, I will probably point out our new collections and anything else of note (specials, etc...) and tell you to wave/wink/holler/call me when you need anything. No worries.

But what we're upset about is the "no!!!" from a customer who then asks tons of questions or a "no!!" from a customer who then immediately goes to another associate with a list and drops money with her/him.

But thanks so much for being polite and independent! I LIKE THAT IN A CUSTOMER!
smiles.gif


Thank you
smiles.gif

I think I was a bit unclear in my previous post (I had not slept at all so brain was kinda shut down). I just wanted to say how I usually act when I go to shop for make-up, and if I, a painfully shy person and damn near sociofobic, manage to respond politely to a stranger approaching me then everyone should. It is just shocking how rude grown up people can be. Do they teach their children to behave this way, I wonder?
 

lara

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen_B
Do they teach their children to behave this way, I wonder?

Short answer: yes.
 

Dark_Phoenix

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by xIxSkyDancerxIx
Asians also have this tendancy to go with whoever seems to be our own ethnical background. EVEN IF that person has zero makeup experience, if we saw an asian person that works at MAC, all the asians would flock to him/her. It's kind of funny actually, because a lot of asians will think "oh, that person is like me, we should go to them and they'll treat us well because we're both the same." LOL.

I go to a MAC where about everyone who works there is European (Oslo, Norway).But there are two MA's who are Arab and I always prefer them over the European MA's. I don't if it's because they speak Arabic (which I understand instead of Norwegian) or they're closer in ethnicity to me. I just have better experiences with them.

So it's not just Asians
greengrin.gif
 

BlahWah

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ella_
Where I work we had to glue our display brushes down onto a black acrylic block to deter sticky fingers. Only yesterday that didnt stop one determined clepto. This woman tried to remove the kabuki we had on the display and when she couldnt take it off I saw her PICK UP THE DISPLAY AND PLACE IT INTO HER MESSENGER BAG!!

When I asked to check her bag she opened it and said 'Oh my, how on earth did that get there?'. I asked for the display back and told her that if she wanted to purchase a brush she was more than welcome to, but please dont take our displays.


WTF2.gif
People are actually that desperate...??? My brain hurts.
 

Ella_

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlahWah
WTF2.gif
People are actually that desperate...??? My brain hurts.


Yeah they are, sad isnt it.

I just got a call from my manager about her. Apparently she came back into the store today to complain about how we glue the display brushes down and how unprofessional it is. She also had a little whinge about me 'giving her attitude' over a 'simple misunderstanding' and said I should be fired. She apparently then went on to interrupt one of my co-workers demos and tell her that she was doing it all wrong!!
 

GreekChick

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ella_
Yeah they are, sad isnt it.

I just got a call from my manager about her. Apparently she came back into the store today to complain about how we glue the display brushes down and how unprofessional it is. She also had a little whinge about me 'giving her attitude' over a 'simple misunderstanding' and said I should be fired. She apparently then went on to interrupt one of my co-workers demos and tell her that she was doing it all wrong!!


That displayer is neat. Unprofessional is having all the brushes stuck inside a measly little beaker, where her dirty little hands can just grab one and shove it in her purse.
 

darkbeauty27

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by claresauntie
Oh, and one more: "Um... how much is a makeover???" asked by a 14-year old girl. (No offense meant, ladies- not all 14-year olds are like this, but sorry: many are). Um, we don't charge for makeovers, so you can save your money to buy our great products, you reply. As you watch her eyes light up, you write off the next 20 minutes of your life. So you make her extra cute, and when you're done watch her climb down off the stool, brightly say "THANKS!" and watch her walk out the door while getting on her cell to tell all of her friends how cool Nordstrom's MAC counter is 'cause they don't charge you for a full makeover. However, if you're smart, you handed her the business card of the associate you don't like, so when she calls later for appointments for all 12 of her friends before they go to Red Robin for dinner, you're not stuck with it.
graucho.gif


Oh goodness I had that happen. Kinda glad the days of working in retail cosmetics are over for me, but I did have some fun times...especially while people-watching.
 

Ruffage

Active member
Haha, thank you all for reading my wall of text. I'm glad my post was of help to you
greengrin.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by claresauntie
Ok, so in all seriousness: if a client of mine doesn't tell me to make her look more round-eyed and fair and innocent looking, how do I know if she wants that look? I don't want to make assumptions on the opposite end of the spectrum and start sending customers out looking like dolls if they don't want that! How do I broach that subject? 'Cause I've noticed that many of my Asian customers are soft-spoken and tend not to give me too much direction... (which I now understand better due to your post, too!).

PS: This last comment also helps me understand that poor Chinese-American girl who, after I did her prom makeup, said "I look Asian" in a crestfallen tone. I suppose she wanted more of what you had been describing. Can you help me prevent this in the future!?
smiles.gif


I think if they don't tell you how they want their make-up to look, it's not your fault if the results don't come out as they expected. Mind-reading isn't part of the job description of the MA, after all. If you asked them and they still can't articulate what they want, well, that's too bad.

Personally, though, as Chinese who lived among native Hong Kong-ers; read the internet for Asian makeup trends; and currently live on a university campus with a large Asian population, I usually do some profiling when it comes to determining Asian women's tastes. It sounds bad, but it's pretty accurate for me so far.

Asian ladies age 30 and below:

Generally the first things I look for is how much the person has assimilated into the culture of the country, to determine whether her tastes leans towards the western ideals of the eastern. If two of more of the following is seen, the person in question leans towards the eastern ideals:

- cute charms and keychains of little Asian cartoon dolls, bunnies, hello kitties, frog-creatures, little sparkly plastic hearts, etc. hanging onto their messenger bags/purses/cell phones
- shirts with funky looking colors and graphics that you know you won't find in GAP/Abercrombie & Fitch/American Eagle Outfitters/large fashion chain stores, possibly with bonus Engrish or English that sounds suspiciously foreign in the design
- Hairstyles not usually seen on most women who are born and lived their entire lives in the country you're currently working in. Something like:
asianhair40.jpg
or
hairdo-6.jpg

(Lots of layers with an 89% chance of having their hair dyed into a reddish/orange-tinted brown.)
BONUS: They have with them a guy with hair like this :
hairdo-2.jpg

-They speak in non-English when they talk with their friends, speak English with a discernable accent, or mixing both their mother-tongue and English in their speech
- If they have makeup on when they step into your store and they have LOTS of mascara on / abundant false lashes, with eyelashes curled/permed like whoa (most are insecure about the size of their eyes), and possibly have bright aquamarine/turquoise/pink eyeshadow smeared onto the lids (very popular for Hong Kong girls when they wear any makeup at all, because the color stands out against pale yellow skin)
- The real hardcore 'just-arrived' Asian girls will not look you in the eyes, or avoid eye contact with you at all costs

On the other hand, North American-born Asians tend to give a more confident, easygoing vibe, and tend to be more assimilated into the N.American culture. They usually have long, straight hair in Toronto.

After identifying the species, the kind of look the Asian girl goes for is usually pretty straightforward. If she leans towards the western ideals, she's probably not a stranger to articulating her needs so it should be smooth sailing. And she's probably less picky.

If she's leaning towards the Eastern ideals, then usually there's only two major looks, which are the cute and the sexy. The reasons for why there are only two looks are:

1. The country doing the leading in Asian fashion and beauty is Japan. China, Taiwan, Hong Kong and to a degree Korea follows Japan's lead. Japan is like the New York/Milan/Paris of Asia Pacific. Lately Korea's popularity has surged, so it now has a lot more say in the direction of Asian fashion and beauty, but even so their tastes aren't that different.

2. Asians (especially from the richer more well off parts) are very concerned with their images. They are fanatics when it comes to keeping up with the Joneses. Which is why a lot of them dress alike when they can afford to or bother to. Women especially are under a lot of pressure to keep up with their peers, which explains the sudden acceptance of plastic surgery for eyelids/noses/cheeks, which was considered taboo and pathetic a decade ago. Japanese women buy these giant periodic fashion magazines, which are like Cosmopolitan and Vogue except it's just a whole book with detailed labeled instructions on what clothes to buy and how to pair them up with the shoes. They don't just say "buy ruffled shirts and nude heels" either. They include the EXACT brands and prices. They also have detailed instructions on makeup. Most girls follow the instructions to a tee. Here's a blog entry on one of these magazines: http://www.pliink.com/mt/marxy/archives/000556.html Frankly I can't even tell the women in the magazines apart. They all look the same.

3. Individuality is easily misinterpreted as showing off, and thus is frowned upon and avoided. Therefore many women and men dress alike.

So it's really easy to pick the looks then for the newly arrived Asians ladies. Just ask them it they want it cute/sweet or sexy.

Cute =
hoshinoaki1.jpg
morningmusume.jpg
(CLONES!)

Sexy =
med_lee-hyo-ri-mar1-1.jpg
KodaKumi_a_051008.jpg


For Asian women age 30 and above, they either know what they want already and are comfortable enough to talk with the MA, or they have already found an beauty store staffed with Asians and find their help there instead. They're also mostly conservative when choosing their makeup, so not many surprises.

Hope that helped
smiles.gif
 

Kiseki

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAC_Pixie04
Why the fuck would you want to humiliate your man like that? Fuck you Pete Wentz and Jared Leto and Bret Michaels, this "guy-liner" bullshit is all your fault.

There is no "guy-liner", there is eyeliner, period and some guys like to wear it. I was wearing liner before this guy liner thing anyway...

Jean Paul-Gaultier caught on pretty quick on this and launched his man makeup line (it bugs me because all products have notes of Le Male perfume on them) and so now it's OK for guys to shop for makeup.

On the other hand, whenever I'm buying eyeliner, I'll go throught the:

SA - "Would you like me to gift wrap this for you?"
Me - No thank you, it's for me. (followed by an nervous look from the SA because she thinks she made a faux-pas)

It's kind of odd to go through this, specially whenever I'm at a new store or there is a new SA helping me, I'm one of those "Hi, how are you doing, could you please get me (insert product of the day) please? Why thank you, have a nice day" customers so I don't relate to any of the situations here. But some places aren't friendly at all for guys to shop for makeup, yesterday I was looking at the Dior counter, I was wearing a friggin' suit and the security officer was standing next to me, just staring, at a point I turned to him and said "Have you worn Dior's loose powder, what do you think of it?" and he immediately disappeared.
 

BloodMittens

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiseki
There is no "guy-liner", there is eyeliner, period and some guys like to wear it. I was wearing liner before this guy liner thing anyway...

Jean Paul-Gaultier caught on pretty quick on this and launched his man makeup line (it bugs me because all products have notes of Le Male perfume on them) and so now it's OK for guys to shop for makeup.

On the other hand, whenever I'm buying eyeliner, I'll go throught the:

SA - "Would you like me to gift wrap this for you?"
Me - No thank you, it's for me. (followed by an nervous look from the SA because she thinks she made a faux-pas)

It's kind of odd to go through this, specially whenever I'm at a new store or there is a new SA helping me, I'm one of those "Hi, how are you doing, could you please get me (insert product of the day) please? Why thank you, have a nice day" customers so I don't relate to any of the situations here. But some places aren't friendly at all for guys to shop for makeup, yesterday I was looking at the Dior counter, I was wearing a friggin' suit and the security officer was standing next to me, just staring, at a point I turned to him and said "Have you worn Dior's loose powder, what do you think of it?" and he immediately disappeared.


I lol'd! That's awesome. I could completely see that security guards face when you scared him away!
 

Ruffage

Active member
Sorry for the double post. Didn't want to make my posts too hard to read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xIxSkyDancerxIx
All too true. I'm Korean and being new to makeup it's a little scary going into MAC where all the MA's have full on makeup and are rocking it, and I have none. LOL. I also grew up where I was a total minority, and alot of the "white" kids would snicker and talk sh*t about me behind their backs (usually about how I looked) so I get a little nervous going in there. LoL.

That reminds me of my friend's experience. She was living in this town where there weren't a lot of people of other ethnicity, and in a bar this guy started to hit on her. His friend pulled him aside (believing they're out of earshot):

Guy's friend: Why do you like Asians so much?
Guy: I dunno. I just do.
Guy's friend: They look like they've been hit in the face by a shovel!

It's so wrong that when she told me the story I burst out laughing. I seriously can't even be mad. It was just too hilarious.
rofl.gif
Kinda explains why everyone's flocking to the plastic surgeons.

And just to keep this on topic, today I was at Sephora's looking for a foundation. Is it just me or do a lot of people misplace every single tester on display? From Urban Decay to Make Up For Ever, nothing is in its original place. I can be pretty anal retentive when it comes to these things so I rearranging the things in the right order sometimes. Plus it's fun, reminds me of those toys where the toddlers put the differently-shaped blocks in the right slots (I am easily amused).

I was browsing the lipglazes and lipglosses in Stila's line when I saw this woman trying on the products on the back of her hand:

1. Woman: -tries l/gs, puts the vanilla in the grapefruit's place, the grapefruit in the mint's place, the mint in the mocha's place...-
2. Me: -rearrange the l/gs in their right places-
3. -mutual glaring ensues-
4. -both left to avoid awkwardness-
5. -5 minutes later, both returned to the l/gs hoping the other person would be done with the display-
6. -more awkwardness-


Gah. I really need to learn to let these things go.
 

lilMAClady

Well-known member
In mild defense of these "annoying" customers, please remember that many of us consumers, I'm sure yourself included, have come across one too many lackluster employees that didn't know what they were talking about and couldn't care less. So try and keep that in mind when you are at work. You are in CUSTOMER SERVICE....
 

claresauntie

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilMAClady
In mild defense of these "annoying" customers, please remember that many of us consumers, I'm sure yourself included, have come across one too many lackluster employees that didn't know what they were talking about and couldn't care less. So try and keep that in mind when you are at work. You are in CUSTOMER SERVICE....

Yes, we know. But there are places for that type of discussion, too. We're chatting in "Working for Cosmetics Retailers" and having an industry discussion to vent our frustrations. Frankly, we listen to enough bitching about other MAs all of the time, and here's where we have retreated to vent a bit ourselves.

No offense is meant to anyone who was not a culprit of this behavior.
 

claresauntie

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruffage
Haha, thank you all for reading my wall of text. I'm glad my post was of help to you
greengrin.gif
...



....Hope that helped
smiles.gif


Thanks again! That helped loads, too.
clap.gif


I like you not just because of your helpful posts, but because you are wordy just like me.
graucho.gif
 

Love Always Ivy

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilMAClady
In mild defense of these "annoying" customers, please remember that many of us consumers, I'm sure yourself included, have come across one too many lackluster employees that didn't know what they were talking about and couldn't care less. So try and keep that in mind when you are at work. You are in CUSTOMER SERVICE....

just because we are in customer service does not mean that i am your dog and you can whistle and hiss and grab on me. especially when a minute before i offered you a basket and asked if you had any questions and you shooed me away with a rude response. there is no problem with helping customers.... it is something i enjoy thoroughly but just because i work in retail doesnt mean you can treat me like your butler. i am there to help you make informed decisions about your purchase and offer knowledgeable insight. im still a person.

there is nothing more satisfying to me than feeling like ive helped make a difference in someones life, especially when it comes to skin care. i have so many regulars that come back to me time and again and just thank me over and over for helping clear up their skin or fading their stretch marks or scars. because i had awful problem skin and no one would ever give me insightful information when i was looking for products. body concerns and skincare concerns are very sensitive and it directly affects your self esteem. there is nothing better in my day than seeing a returning customer come back with more confidence and just generally happier as a result of the help ive given them. when i sell im not just there to make my sales goal or to push the promo on people. i actually really try to help. i had 3 different customers this past week tell me how helpful i was with skin care and that i would make an amazing dermatologist, and guess what im actually in med school to be a dermatologist, because helping people with something as important and sensitive as their skin is one of the most gratifying things i have ever done in my life.

so as much as i am complaining about bad customers, its not because im just an awful bitter human being, its because i really do try to help and it just bites me in the ass with these people because nothing i do is right and they just make me feel like a big POS.
 

claresauntie

Well-known member
OK, this isn't a customer telling me how to do my job, really, but gives you an idea of how the world goes at Nordstrom.

A very loud lady came barreling through the department yesterday. As she stomped towards the MAC counter, she caught me in her laser beams and bellowed "WHAT DO YOU HAVE FOR FREE TODAY!!??". I fake-giggled and gave my usual "To keep our costs down, MAC doesn't create pre-packaged sampes" spiel, which usually takes the light out of people's eyes. Not at all phased by this, and without breaking stride, she tossed over her shoulder "WHERE'S FRAGRANCES? THEY'VE ALWAYS GOT FREE STUFF!" I heard her 30 seconds later from across the wall shouting "WHAT DO YOU HAVE FOR FREE TODAY!!??"

And such is life at Nordstrom...
 

ms.marymac

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilMAClady
In mild defense of these "annoying" customers, please remember that many of us consumers, I'm sure yourself included, have come across one too many lackluster employees that didn't know what they were talking about and couldn't care less. So try and keep that in mind when you are at work. You are in CUSTOMER SERVICE....

Sure I have run into employees who really don't care about their job or couldn't answer my questions...but I never talk down to them, snap at them, insult them, or insist that I am all-knowing in their industry and tell them what to do. I don't jump ahead of people because I think I deserve to go first. It's called manners. If someone is just rude, I just take my business elsewhere.

We are just talking about self-absorbed people who have no respect for people who are sincerely trying to help them and that think they fart Chanel. Just because someone encounters a few duds in CS does not give them the right to treat every single SA from there on like dirt.

Anyway, I am sure you are not one of those customers that we are referring to.
smiles.gif
 

Kiseki

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodMittens
I lol'd! That's awesome. I could completely see that security guards face when you scared him away!

Honestly, he has to do his job, but standing in front of me as if I was about to steal stuff and not being discreet about it, pissed me off. At least if you suspect someone, then be discreet.
 

righteothen

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiseki
There is no "guy-liner", there is eyeliner, period and some guys like to wear it. I was wearing liner before this guy liner thing anyway...

Jean Paul-Gaultier caught on pretty quick on this and launched his man makeup line (it bugs me because all products have notes of Le Male perfume on them) and so now it's OK for guys to shop for makeup.

On the other hand, whenever I'm buying eyeliner, I'll go throught the:

SA - "Would you like me to gift wrap this for you?"
Me - No thank you, it's for me. (followed by an nervous look from the SA because she thinks she made a faux-pas)

It's kind of odd to go through this, specially whenever I'm at a new store or there is a new SA helping me, I'm one of those "Hi, how are you doing, could you please get me (insert product of the day) please? Why thank you, have a nice day" customers so I don't relate to any of the situations here. But some places aren't friendly at all for guys to shop for makeup, yesterday I was looking at the Dior counter, I was wearing a friggin' suit and the security officer was standing next to me, just staring, at a point I turned to him and said "Have you worn Dior's loose powder, what do you think of it?" and he immediately disappeared.


You're awesome ^_^. Not enough men are comfortable enough with themselves to wear whatever they want, so I am very proud of you.

And seriously, what's the problem with men wearing makeup? I know some guys who could definitely use it...
 

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