Jena 6

[MAChostage]

I never once said you didn't know SQUAT, nor did I intend to insult your intelligence. You sound way defensive and way ready for a fight. Sorry if you do feel that way, but I'm not participating in that. I simply pointed out what I consider to be the inadequacy of the American History curriculum in our schools.

Further, I don't appreciate the language you've used towards me in your response. It was uncalled for.


Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmy thank you for insulting my intelligence, i appreciate that. we spent six fucking months learning about malcolm x, and he was the least covered african american historical icon throughout my schooling. so don't tell me i don't know shit. now, what can you tell me about the irish endentured servants? probably not a damn thing. most people can't because it isn't covered in any state's core cirriculum. sorry if i sound bitchy i just think it's flat out ridiculous that someone wants to come at me and talk shit on the education i recieved. if you sat next to me for the past thirteen years, feel free to pass judgement on my education and my intelligence, but that isn't the case.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae This is about the closest thing to an island as you'll ever have Shim. And so far, you're ability to get me voted off hasn't been very successful. Your welcome to share my hammock under the palm trees any time though.

If you think I've ever tried to have your account removed from this website, you're mistaken.
Quote:

Considering whats availible to eat on Survivor, thats probably one of the better skills to have. And chances are we eat the same amount but if thinking I starve myself lets u sleep better at night, you go girl.

I sincerely, wholeheartedly, and absolutely doubt that.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAChostage Ok... so you learned about Jim Crow and slavery. Wow. I'm sure, then, that the real, in-depth, QUALITY teaching of American history you received from your school system probably was comprised of blurbs about the Underground Railroad, Martin Luther King, Jr., Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglas. Ooh, and if ya'll got really tricky with it you might have even touched on Malcolm X! None of the so-called American History that was taught in any of the public schools I attended in the 60's and 70's went much past those things I just mentioned. And here's the kicker: my own daughter, who just turned 20, had the same pitiful and lacking American History teachings that have always been. What progress! And I have to say that I am seriously tired of the marginalization of the entire black experience in our country, to include slavery (which many think that black folks should just "get over".) I hate to view the glass as half-empty, but the sad fact is that things will never change, because many will choose to continue to bury their heads in the sand about the facts concerning race and race relations in America. To that end we will have to agree to disagree and attempt to co-exist in a civil fashion. It really saddens me that we've still got, in 2000-damn-7, most of the same race issues -- and ignorance -- that have existed from the start.

Black history is way more focused on, and taught, than Native American history, or, as Kimmy said, Irish indentured servitude (which is just another word for slavery anyway...). All of that is glossed over and really not even mentioned at all in history classes in school.

Additionally, as I said in a previous post, there are Reservations in some states that have lower than 3d world poverty levels, and almost no technological advancements...yet there aren't organizations and groups and all that out to champion that cause.

If you want to talk race relations, lets go, but please don't go into the discussion believing that only black people have been discriminated against, and please don't go into it thinking any one group has had it worse than another, because they really haven't.

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAChostage Ok... so you learned about Jim Crow and slavery. Wow. I'm sure, then, that the real, in-depth, QUALITY teaching of American history you received from your school system probably was comprised of blurbs about the Underground Railroad, Martin Luther King, Jr., Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglas. Ooh, and if ya'll got really tricky with it you might have even touched on Malcolm X! None of the so-called American History that was taught in any of the public schools I attended in the 60's and 70's went much past those things I just mentioned. And here's the kicker: my own daughter, who just turned 20, had the same pitiful and lacking American History teachings that have always been. What progress!

i don't think it's unreasonable for me to take that as an insult. education is intelligence, therefore i take a jab at my education to be an insult of my intelligence, which i take very seriously. and i apologize if you were offended by my harsh words. i'll be the first to admit that i'm not very tactful when i'm upset. so again, i apologize and will try to tone the language down.

i just tire of the masses thinking that black history is not adequately covered in school. maybe in florida it isn't, but i assure you, on the west coast it is covered in depth throughout our thirteen years of schooling moreso than any other ethnic history, as i said the fate suffered by irish immigrants isn't even mentioned, and asian internment is only touched upon.

i don't have ancestors that were slaves, but i have ancestors that were beaten, raped and murdered because of their race. just as you personally have never been enslaved, i have never been personally beaten or raped because of my race so i think we both have equal ability to feel empathy for both of our ancestors who suffered.

furthermore, i personally do believe we all need to get over our history. we need to know it, we need to be familiar with it so we can ensure that we don't repeat those bad parts...but it was over two hundred years ago and it's time for us to just drop it and say "yeah, things were fucked up, but let's not drag them out. let's not segregate anyone and let's not self segregate."

on the subject of things "never changing"...as long as people make race an issue, it will be an issue. racism is not natural and is not something that is intrinsic in anyone. it is learned through many different channels and is only fed by people continuously bringing up race. nothing can happen between whites and blacks that won't be viewed by someone as "racially motivated" which simply is not the case.

 

[MarieLisa_Smile]

I Forgot to mention about the Jenna 6 situation.. This girl in my class was having a dinner reception thrown by her workplace people. She asked the class to attend by then I had to work all day. The whole community and whoever were invited.. My point is that all the donations money they had was going to the Jenna 6 Defense fund. The features were statments by family memebers of the Jenna 6, Da Truth Brass Band, Spoken word from Sunnie Patterson, and The Renaissance Society Poets...

For infomation.. go here..

http://freethejena6.org/

 

[Indigowaters]

I think if "the masses" have a problem and don't think it's covered enough, there's a problem. Just because one person feels it's not, doesn't mean it's not. In Florida, we aren't given so much as a page on Black History in our books. It's because people want to "forget" that we can't move on. It's like erasing us out of the books, like they tried to do Nefertiti of Egypt (the religious leaders went back to the tomb and took her staffs and chipped her name off of the heiroglyphs so you couldn't recognize that she was a ruler). You can't know where you're going unless you know where you come from and don't repeat history. Maybe you're "tired" but that's an insult to assume we don't know about the history of Irish immigrants or others as well. We're just speaking about our history. Maybe if you speak about yours with a little more passion than insult, we can see where you're coming from. But in order to get respect, you must first give it. Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmy i just tire of the masses thinking that black history is not adequately covered in school. maybe in florida it isn't, but i assure you, on the west coast it is covered in depth throughout our thirteen years of schooling moreso than any other ethnic history, as i said the fate suffered by irish immigrants isn't even mentioned, and asian internment is only touched upon. i don't have ancestors that were slaves, but i have ancestors that were beaten, raped and murdered because of their race. just as you personally have never been enslaved, i have never been personally beaten or raped because of my race so i think we both have equal ability to feel empathy for both of our ancestors who suffered. furthermore, i personally do believe we all need to get over our history. we need to know it, we need to be familiar with it so we can ensure that we don't repeat those bad parts...but it was over two hundred years ago and it's time for us to just drop it and say "yeah, things were fucked up, but let's not drag them out. let's not segregate anyone and let's not self segregate." on the subject of things "never changing"...as long as people make race an issue, it will be an issue. racism is not natural and is not something that is intrinsic in anyone. it is learned through many different channels and is only fed by people continuously bringing up race. nothing can happen between whites and blacks that won't be viewed by someone as "racially motivated" which simply is not the case.

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indigowaters I think if "the masses" have a problem and don't think it's covered enough, there's a problem. Just because one person feels it's not, doesn't mean it's not. In Florida, we aren't given so much as a page on Black History in our books. It's because people want to "forget" that we can't move on. It's like erasing us out of the books, like they tried to do Nefertiti of Egypt (the religious leaders went back to the tomb and took her staffs and chipped her name off of the heiroglyphs so you couldn't recognize that she was a ruler). You can't know where you're going unless you know where you come from and don't repeat history. Maybe you're "tired" but that's an insult to assume we don't know about the history of Irish immigrants or others as well. We're just speaking about our history. Maybe if you speak about yours with a little more passion than insult, we can see where you're coming from. But in order to get respect, you must first give it.

like i said, things may be different here and there. like i said, on the west coast we are taught in depth about black history. i can assure you, black leaders of the past have not been erased from history. however, here, the irish immigrants have. perhaps the roles are reversed on the east coast. i can't say, i've never been schooled in that system.

i don't know where or how i've insulted black history. please elaborate?

 

[MAChostage]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmy i don't think it's unreasonable for me to take that as an insult. education is intelligence, therefore i take a jab at my education to be an insult of my intelligence, which i take very seriously. and i apologize if you were offended by my harsh words. i'll be the first to admit that i'm not very tactful when i'm upset. so again, i apologize and will try to tone the language down.

Apology accepted.

 

[Indigowaters]

I never said you insulted Black History! I think you're reading too fast. I said it's insulting to assume we don't know about the history of others as well. I know blacks weren't the only ones to go through slavery, but that wasn't covered in-depth over here either. I do know quite a bit about the Holocaust because a teacher focused on that part of history and I also watched history specials myself to get a better understanding. I understand certain things weren't covered, because if we had to review everything in history that happened, we'd still be in school. But it's up to us to educate ourselves and our children outside of the classroom in order to not go back and repeat history. Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmy like i said, things may be different here and there. like i said, on the west coast we are taught in depth about black history. i can assure you, black leaders of the past have not been erased from history. however, here, the irish immigrants have. perhaps the roles are reversed on the east coast. i can't say, i've never been schooled in that system. i don't know where or how i've insulted black history. please elaborate?

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indigowaters I never said you insulted Black History! I think you're reading too fast. I said it's insulting to assume we don't know about the history of others as well. I know blacks weren't the only ones to go through slavery, but that wasn't covered in-depth over here either. I do know quite a bit about the Holocaust because a teacher focused on that part of history and I also watched history specials myself to get a better understanding. I understand certain things weren't covered, because if we had to review everything in history that happened, we'd still be in school. But it's up to us to educate ourselves and our children outside of the classroom in order to not go back and repeat history.

finally, something we agree on.

i do appreciate you clarifying, once again.

so, it seems to me that here, the coverage of black history is equal to the coverage of the holocaust you recieved. i just want to stress the fact that we are educated in depth about black history (in california, at least) and race relations are taught here constantly. so, as it's insulting to you for me to assume you don't know much about irish immigrants, it's insulting for me when others assume i don't know anything more than jim crow laws and slavery about black history, see what i mean? i am glad to know that at least somewhere, the anti-irish attitude of the early settlers is being covered because it sure as hell isn't covered here.

i know we're going to have to agree to disagree on this matter, as with all race issues...but i just want you to know where i'm coming from in this so you can understand why we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[QTAllStarGurl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Did he spend the time there because no one could post bail? Or was bail not set? I haven't checked that. Also, remember, that kid had priors, fairly notable ones, IIRC.

Yah there was a bail set but supposedly it was really high and his family couldn't afford it....im not sure how much it was though....im gonna try to see if i can find anything on that

 

[QTAllStarGurl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indigowaters Bail was set for $45,000. But it was originally set for $90,000. http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/law/0...ef=mpstoryview

oops...i spotted this after i posted my last comment lol....sry

 

[lipstickandhate]

I didn't read all of this BUT.

First, the nooses. The problem with the nooses is that although seriously inappropriate, its not a serious crime. Its AT BEST disorderly conduct or some minor misdemeanor or violation. The DA couldn't do anything to whoever hung the nooses if he wanted to. You can't slam someone in jail b/c others are offended. Poor taste, certainly, criminal conduct, I doubt it.

Secondly, I don't believe FOR A FUCKING SECOND that the nooses were those boys' motive for beating up the victim. I think that was very clever defense work, to create a causal relationship between the nooses and their actions b/c it would garner sympathy for them since its almost understandable why they resorted to self-help. I doubt the two incidents are, behind all the smoke and mirrors, in any way related to one another.

Third, I don't care what color you are, where you live, what your community background is, there is never an excuse to resort to self-help. There is never an excuse to have a 6 on 1 fight which puts someone into a semi-coma. Mistaken identity of the victim as one of the ring-leaders of the noose snafu also doesn't cut it.

Fourth, unequal charging, so what? Welcome to real life. The prosecutor, given the facts of the case, was WELL WITHIN his rights to charge that boy with attempted murder. If my memory serves me right, it was his FIFTH ASSAULT UNDER THE AGE OF 18, which also sheds some light on why he was tried as an adult the first go-around. Interesting mainstream media doesn't point out what a dangerous kid this was before the incident.

Fifth, Al Sharpton is just as racist as anyone. Someone should look up his history and his opinions on Jews and other "white interlopers." In my opinion, every time he opens his mouth, he sets his supposed "community" back 25 years. He's an inflammatory snake-oil salesman who does more harm than good . Jesse is no better- he's a mysogonistic pig who threatens company's with lawsuits to garner donations to his Rainbow Coalition or whatever the hell he does.

Sixth, many people are incredibly naive about teenage boys' capacity for violence. Especially teenage boys from difficult socio-economic backgrounds, which is the liberal way of saying BAD NEIGHBORHOODS. Some members of this board seem to need to assign a reason to violence as if its too hard to accept that it happens for no reason or for inexcusable reasons like wounded pride, the wrong colors, etc.

Some people are just plain bad.

Seventh, you set high bail precisely so the family can't afford it. That way her kid doesn't get out of jail and flee the jurisdiction. Such is your fate when you are a repeat offender. The judge just doesn't give you the benefit of the doubt again and again.

 

[lipstickandhate]

Also, if you want to actually know what "cruel and unusual punishment" means, please consider looking up the history of the term in American jurisprudence not what you think it means which is usually "extra mean."

That's not what it means. LOL.

 

[lipstickandhate]

Its scary to me how many people on this board think things that are offensive to a certain segment of the population should be considered illegal and criminally prosecuted as such.

I get the impression many people on this board think hanging nooses is a bigger deal than a gang-beating.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lipstickandhate Its scary to me how many people on this board think things that are offensive to a certain segment of the population should be considered illegal and criminally prosecuted as such. I get the impression many people on this board think hanging nooses is a bigger deal than a gang-beating.

100% agreement.

 

[*Stargazer*]

I want to marry lipstickandhate.

 

[Shimmer]

Me first dammit!

 

[*Stargazer*]

I bet the three of us could have a fulfilling and mutually beneficial relationship.

 

[Indigowaters]

You know what? I think it's very cowardly to come in after the conversation after we had agreed to disagree just to get everyone back up in arms again. I don't think you've covered anything that hasn't been said and I doubt anyone will change their opinion, so if you just came back on to get extra "thanks", be my guest.