Makeup artist against MAC/ MAC pushing independant artists out of the industry

[Jude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovemichelle Exactly, it is just make-up, but people seem obsessed with it now. Honestly, if my skin was clear like it used to be I wouldn't even be wearing make-up. I have a boyfriend who loves me regardless if I have it on or not so I couldn't care less. I only wear it now because I hate how some spots of my skin look. I took all my make-up for the night and I kinda feel like I look better without it. I feel pure and just myself. Some act like MAC is so much more superior to other things and I don't think so. Or they will be like "oh there goes all the money in my wallet cuz MAC has a new collection out." Please. A blow lipstick or Luella TLC isn't that important. When I used MAC my friends were like what's that? I was like I guess it's good shit because people hype it, but it isn't all that.

Ok Michelle. We get it. Thank you for being around to remind us of how blah MAC is and how much more evolved you are because you manage to stay above the fray unlike the rest of us plebes. I would give your further accolades regarding all this but you have been doing a most excellent job of doing it yourself.

To each his own....

Peace!

 

[PrettyKitty]

AMEN sistah!

 

[lovemichelle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DopeSickGirl Thank God that MAC is out there to show you what kind of makeup you don't need. Funny that you would hang out in a MAC forum though. Oh yeah... you must need constant reminder of what you don't need..haha.

This is JUST a MAC forum? I didn't realize that. I thought it was for make-up in general. I am in the LJ MAC community because I used to use MAC, but I rarely even post there.

I didn't try to say anything bad about them, but I think some people take their make-up way too far.

 

[PrettyKitty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovemichelle This is JUST a MAC forum? I didn't realize that. I thought it was for make-up in general. I am in the LJ MAC community because I used to use MAC, but I rarely even post there. I didn't try to say anything bad about them, but I think some people take their make-up way too far.

Hum okay yeah... scroll up and you should see 'Your definitive MAC resource'.

 

[lovemichelle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrettyKitty Hum okay yeah... scroll up and you should see 'Your definitive MAC resource'.

What does that mean?

 

[martygreene]

Yes, Specktra is largely about MAC, but we are not exclusive to MAC and we welcome all who have an interest in makeup to our site and our forums. We have folk here who favor Stila, Bobbi Brown, Biotherm, Perscriptives, Mineral Makeup, and many other brands as well as those who wear minimal makeup.

As for whether it matters if businesses have as some would call it "sold out" on their business ethics, that is a personal decision. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

As for the obsession issue, while I do not agree with the compulsive buying, collecting, and hoarding of cosmetics personally, if that is what you wish to do then I wish you luck with it. The only time I really have an issue with it is when people who choose to behave in this manner then blame MAC or Estee Lauder/Markham for their personal financial problems later down the line. I do not think that everyone who likes MAC is required to be obsessed or compulsive about it.

This has been a good thread full of discussion, open statement of opinion, and information sharing. Let's try and keep it as such. Remember, in a discussion or debate such as this, it is the points which are being hashed and re-hashed, personal experiance and anecdotal evidences are welcome, but personal attacks are not appropriate.

 

[Chelsea]

Specktra is, first and foremost a mac website. However, we welcome ALL people who appreciate makeup and beauty. Not just mac! I really hope that everyone feels welcome here and that all members are welcoming those who don't use mac as well.

As far as my thought on this issue ... mac has changed. Everything changes, unfortunately. It is a hugely popular globalized chain now rather than the specialized brand it used to be. It's inevitable and something that comes with success. There are things I loved about how mac used to be.. and things I love about how it is now.

And adding on to marty's earlier post about discounts.. NARS offers one as well at least here in Canada. $150 off every $500 spent.

 

[DoeEyedGirl]

I have been sitting back as a sort of voyeur to this debate, but I'd like to share my perspective on the subject. First, I'll tell you a little about me. I am a MAC artist and a professional freelancer (some runway, special fx and bridal for fun and extra $$$). I have also worked for Clinique and Chanel. MAC has some phenomenal products that are staples in my traincase...these "staples" really perform (I won't bother listing them because their are too many and I don't want to get onto another topic). I do agree that the new collections are coming out at lightning speed but part of that is not just attributed to EL but also customer demand. Many of our customers want new stuff constantly...I know firsthand....a collection will be out for a week and one of our diehards is already asking "What's next?" We cater to those customers as well our customers that just need a studio fix or a smolder eye kohl. We do our job...we sell...but no one is forcing anyone to buy into it. I have a ton of products because I have a ton of needs with my work...but I don't fall into the LE trap. Other lines do the same thing...they are just disguised as gifts or pwp. Come on? Clinique and Lancome always entice you to come in for an event or the next gift. Corporations have to make money. One thing I can say I am really proud about is our MAC AIDS fund...over 50 million dollars since its inception. Make doesn't make a penny on the Kids Helping Kids Cards or the Viva Glam lipsticks/gloss...every dollar spent goes to the fund not just the "profits". We also have helped our MAC brothers and sisters that were victims of Katrina with food a clothing drives. MAC is huge so there is good and bad. I have freelance friends who are hurting in NY but I also have friends that are thriving. I have my complaints about MAC but it has really educated me and opened a lot of doors for me also. I am a 24 yr old single mother of twins and a full-time student on top of everything...so soon I will be leaving the MAC world because retail hours don't mix with family...but MAC laid a good foundation for me as far as my freelance work goes. The networking is amazing...but like anything in this world you have to have accountability. If I am not a success it is not the fault of any corporation or the "man"....I have no one to blame but myself. I am grateful of the opportunities they have given me and as far as their shortcomings...I am resourceful and will be able to take it to the next level. There will always be obstacles in life. MAC has some great products and some talented artist...oh, and by the way...the pimply face no talent comments are harsh...you wouldn't want the MUA's ripping on our customers, would you?

 

[PrettyKitty]

Whatever...

If it's not just a 'MAC Resource', it shouldn't be the 'title' of each page! And here, we are on the 'MAC Chat' forum.

Anyway...

What's the point to be on a website if they mostly talk about a brand you don't like?

If I can't be myself and talk about MAC without being bashed because I buy too much or some others girls hate MAC..... Specktra isn't better than MUA!

 

[Janice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrettyKitty If it's not just a 'MAC Resource', it shouldn't be the 'title' of each page! And here, we are on the 'MAC Chat' forum.

We are just a MAC resource, we do not compile, collect, and share information on the main site about any other line. Your right, it is MAC chat forum and people are here discussing MAC.. though not everyone is in favor of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrettyKitty What's the point to be on a website if they mostly talk about a brand you don't like?

Hrmm.. Well, I can't this answer for them. Hopefully it's because they came here and saw something they liked about the forum? Hopefully we offer them enough non-MAC alternative topics and forums for those people to feel like they have a reason to register and start participating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrettyKitty If I can't be myself and talk about MAC without being bashed because I buy too much or some others girls hate MAC

I'm not sure where you are being bashed, or where anyone in this thread has directly insulted you about your MAC purchasing habits. Sure some people think we are silly to buy something from every collection, or purchase something simply because it's LE.. but who cares?

Some people who have posted in this thread might not care for MAC, but that's okay!

There is no reason to make this topic personal. We don't have to answer to anyone for our purchasing habits but ourselves (and our SO's sometimes if we spend too much ).

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrettyKitty Specktra isn't better than MUA!

I'm not sure where anyone said this in this thread? I know I personally don't run around thinking Specktra is better than an estbliashed leading beauty discussion website with hundreds of thousands of members! Specktra is in no competition at al with MUA. We are just a little niche on the web for MAC and beauty chat.

 

[martygreene]

I think it's less a matter of people who have posted to this thread hating MAC, but more that they are a bit more reserved in their manner towards it. Doesn't mean they don't like it, or don't use it, just means they have a different level of attachment to it, and that's OK.

Me? I use a variety of brands. I'm not an exclusive to MAC person. I never will be. I'll never even be close. To be completely honest, a large reason of why I use MAC products is the availability, and some of the PRO products which used to exist. I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet, when I run out of certain things. Do I agree 100% with the business ethics of the company? not really. Do I disagree with enough of them to stop buying from them completely? I don't think so, at least not yet. I'm still working hard to make an impact on the company, and it's seemed to be working. Product labelling is becoming much better. There are few businesses in the world who have perfect track records as far as their ethics go. I'm acutely aware of this from my humanitarian work. I make decisions based on the information I can gather, and if I can't gather anything bu anecdotal evidence, I won't make a judgement call on that as it's unreliable.

Yes, we are LAREGELY a MAC resource, but we aren't ONLY a MAC site.

 

[leppy]

I agree with you guys but I also see where some of the users are coming from. Some people are being downright hostile about MAC and implying that people are stupid or silly for being so into it. That is also not okay in my opinion. Sure we are a general MU site but our focus is on MAC. You don't have to love MAC to be here, you don't even have to like them, but openly hating on it and insulting those that love it is just inviting a hostile reaction from other members.

 

[lovemichelle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrettyKitty Whatever... If it's not just a 'MAC Resource', it shouldn't be the 'title' of each page! And here, we are on the 'MAC Chat' forum. Anyway... What's the point to be on a website if they mostly talk about a brand you don't like? If I can't be myself and talk about MAC without being bashed because I buy too much or some others girls hate MAC..... Specktra isn't better than MUA!

Because there are other topics that aren't about MAC and I also used to use the brand so I know some things about it.

 

[Jude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leppy I agree with you guys but I also see where some of the users are coming from. Some people are being downright hostile about MAC and implying that people are stupid or silly for being so into it. That is also not okay in my opinion. Sure we are a general MU site but our focus is on MAC. You don't have to love MAC to be here, you don't even have to like them, but openly hating on it and insulting those that love it is just inviting a hostile reaction from other members.

Thank you Leppy! I don't care if anyone decides to stop using MAC for whatever reason. What gets under my skin is the attitude carried by some that the MAC lovers are silly or wrong or childish because they get excited about the monthly releases. Like I said earlier, to each their own.

Yes, this is a general MU site but the majority of the women on this board are here because of MAC. Therefore, to run around from thread to thread, bashing MAC and it's loyal followers is kind of baffling to me.

I apologize to any of the Specktra admins for my passionate postings earlier but I'm sorry, abrasive people just bug the heck out of me.

 

[PrettyKitty]

Hum... where to start?

First:

I never said that Specktra was ONLY for MAC. I know that there is others topics than MAC, I'm not silly. But when people think about 'Specktra' they probably think about 'MAC'. Right?

What I want to say, is exactly what Leppy said. (But my english is too bad to be able to explain it):

Quote:

I agree with you guys but I also see where some of the users are coming from. Some people are being downright hostile about MAC and implying that people are stupid or silly for being so into it. That is also not okay in my opinion. Sure we are a general MU site but our focus is on MAC. You don't have to love MAC to be here, you don't even have to like them, but openly hating on it and insulting those that love it is just inviting a hostile reaction from other members.

Janice; You talk to me like I was too stupid to understand. People can hate MAC, they can like it, and some people don't care. But even if someone don't like Clinique... It's not a reason to go on a website *mostly* made for Clinique (Read, here, I said *mostly* and not ONLY) and bash the girls because they buy this brand, use it and love it. It's better to say nothing when you have nothing great to say!

Quote:

I'm not sure where anyone said this in this thread? I know I personally don't run around thinking Specktra is better than an estbliashed leading beauty discussion website with hundreds of thousands of members! Specktra is in no competition at al with MUA. We are just a little niche on the web for MAC and beauty chat.

Nobody said that in this thread, I never said that! What I want to say is: I was thinking that Specktra was a nice website where you can talk about MAC with others MAC addicts, and feel great here because they love the same thing.. MAC! On MUA, lot of girls don't like MAC as we love it here. We find more true MAC addicts here than on MUA. But I was wrong, Specktra isn't better than MUA (I thought it was!), we are not a little MAC lovers group like I thought we were....

Remember, my native language isn't english, so please, try to read it carefully, maybe you will understand more...

 

[Juneplum]

i've been following this thread and watching what's happening.. couple of things came to mind.. like pretty kitty said, the majority of us here at specktra ARE bonafide mac addicts and enjoy revelling in the new collections and accompanying frenzy that surrounds their release.

that being said, what bothers me is that this IS a mostly mac lovers group so if someone starts to bash the product and make fun of us beacuse of our love for the product, they should not be surprised to see us all rise to it's defense.

in no way does that mean if u don't love mac that u cannot be on specktra, however, do not belittle us for our passion about mac. some of us DO think mac is superior and guess what, that is OUR choice and OUR preference. if we want to spend all our money on mac it's nobody elses business but our own. sure we may joke around and say things like "oh i'm going to be so broke" or "oh boy there goes my paycheck" but that's what they are JOKES. and even if they are not jokes and some of us ARE complusive buyers, again, that's OUR business.

like pretty kitty said, we are on the MAC chat forum, so coming here and being judgemental about us is a waste of your time and ours quite frankly.

 

[shygirl]

Ok. I really, really didn't intend to stir up the pot when I created this post.

My reason for creating the topic was, yeah, I did feel like I had to defend my fascination with MAC. I shouldn't have felt that way but what's done is done. There are non-Pros who are really, really good at make-up application! I just felt that shouldve been taken into consideration. Being a beauty-schooled Pro doesn't necessarily make you the best.

I also wanted to offer another perspective to the professional MAs who were against MAC's treatment of them personally. I know what it's like to be mistreated and I took the soapbox approach and it didn't work for me. So, I was trying to suggest rather than work against consumers, work with us. I also realized that there are people on Specktra who work for MAC and love their jobs so I wanted to hear what they had to say. Like, maybe the company has changed, etc.

Finally, I should've just posted my thoughts on that site but I automatically assumed I wouldn't be able to register since it looks like a paid site. I shouldn't have done that.

In short, I apologize for starting this topic.

 

[leppy]

Janice did nothing of the sort PK, no where did she speak to you like you are stupid and I really don't see how random users expressing that they don't like MAC very much means we're oh so bad and plagued with the problems of MUA. If a few people expressing an opinion that you don't agree with sours the whole site for you then it would be impossible to keep you happy.

Specktra is a MAC resource and was made for the purpose of discussing & sharing info about MAC, but other cosmetic lines and their fans are welcome to be here. That is all anyone is trying to get across, and I don't see anything that has been said in this thread by the admins or mods that deserves them being attacked for it.

 

[leppy]

Also, shygirl.. you did nothing wrong. All you did was bring up an important subject and its not your fault at all that its turned this way. Controversial topics always get peoples blood boiling, but thats no reason not to discuss them.

Hopefully everyone will just calm down and realize that one thread is not worth all this drama.

 

[orodwen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DopeSickGirl ...Yes, this is a general MU site but the majority of the women on this board are here because of MAC...

speak for yourself. i'm here for the sex!