Makeup artist against MAC/ MAC pushing independant artists out of the industry
- Thread starter shygirl
- Start date
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
It's sad that happened.
I hope it wasn't someone tied to EL/MAC. That would be really, really low to the point I would actively boycott their products.
I hope it wasn't someone tied to EL/MAC. That would be really, really low to the point I would actively boycott their products.
BloodMittens
Well-known member
I read this post somewhere before, and each time it really really kinda hurts me somewhere inside. Whether it's because I am extremely loyal to the brand itself or some other reason, I don't think I know for sure. But I do know this, when I was about 17, I wore extremely bright makeup, and I was looking for a really nice green glitter liner, I looked everywhere for one, in my gigantic mall. Through all the stores, the ulta, clinique, benefit, sephora, I couldn't find that just right liner I was looking for. Then I walked into MAC and found just that color, but not only that, bright matte colors I had been searching for that wasn't a smudge or a liner I would have to layer and layer on my lids to get a great 80's color look.
I fell in love on the spot. And that's when I also met my first (and current) favorite MA of all time. She smiled at me, didn't treat me like a kid that I was so used to being treated like when I went up to a makeup counter. She talked with me about MAC and told me their motto and showed me some swatches on her hand. We exchanged names and have been counter friends ever since.
It's true that MAC is owned by EL and everything, but that really doesn't bother me. MAC is still trendy, and even though they are popping out more collection than Angelina Jolie is adopting kids, I still love them.
And this:
Quote:
pisses me off.
How dare someone say that being a 19 year old (I'm 19) means you cannot be an "artist". I am actually almost shaking right now because of this. I worked my ass off for years painting and drawings, like 12 years of my life! Saying that someone cannot be good at doing makeup because they are 19 years old? I can understand that sometimes girls come in, get their makeup done, and it doesn't look as good as they pictured it in their heads. Same with haircuts! But who is to say that the MA who did your makeup is not a good "artist"? You may not look good, but the girl next to you could look beautiful to you. This really bothers me, I am extremely loyal to MAC and to their mottos. I care a lot about the brand and it really really btohers me to see someone talk this way about something and call people untalented just because they are different and because they use a different style of applying makeup.
OOOH. Sorry. I'm done ranting. I'm really emo today
I fell in love on the spot. And that's when I also met my first (and current) favorite MA of all time. She smiled at me, didn't treat me like a kid that I was so used to being treated like when I went up to a makeup counter. She talked with me about MAC and told me their motto and showed me some swatches on her hand. We exchanged names and have been counter friends ever since.
It's true that MAC is owned by EL and everything, but that really doesn't bother me. MAC is still trendy, and even though they are popping out more collection than Angelina Jolie is adopting kids, I still love them.
And this:
Quote:
| Though I despise doing the trend shows that all of the department stores are producing, I always get a huge chuckle at the shoppers who run over to the LM or BB counters because some Cyndi Lauper-looking idiot at the MAC counter made them look like a pale clown. As usual, MAC hires a ton of 19 year-old girls who like to apply garrish makeup on themselves and the clients. And those, fortunately for the other lines, are the ones working these events. MAC doesn't hire "artists" anymore - they would rather groom these PYTs into little corporate look-a-likes. Somehow - whether Spring or Fall trend, they use lots of silver and navy. Which is so not a good look on most people... And the horrified clients come running to the actual artist brands to be "fixed". |
pisses me off.
How dare someone say that being a 19 year old (I'm 19) means you cannot be an "artist". I am actually almost shaking right now because of this. I worked my ass off for years painting and drawings, like 12 years of my life! Saying that someone cannot be good at doing makeup because they are 19 years old? I can understand that sometimes girls come in, get their makeup done, and it doesn't look as good as they pictured it in their heads. Same with haircuts! But who is to say that the MA who did your makeup is not a good "artist"? You may not look good, but the girl next to you could look beautiful to you. This really bothers me, I am extremely loyal to MAC and to their mottos. I care a lot about the brand and it really really btohers me to see someone talk this way about something and call people untalented just because they are different and because they use a different style of applying makeup.
OOOH. Sorry. I'm done ranting. I'm really emo today
flowerhead
Well-known member
^I totally agree with everything you wrote..
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
While I think the age thing was ridiculous to bring it, I think KJ makes some good points about how the brand has changed and what it's doing to the makeup industry. The man who maintained that blog isn't just some bitter nobody; while taste is subjective, he's much more of an authority on cosmetic aesthetics than a lot of people are.
It's great you like MAC so much. I still like some of the things there, but at the same time, I do question their ethics. Seeing how undercutting has hurt other industries/fields, I'm really against it.
I personally don't understand brand loyalty. I mean, I love Sephora, but I don't get that offended when people hate the place.
It's great you like MAC so much. I still like some of the things there, but at the same time, I do question their ethics. Seeing how undercutting has hurt other industries/fields, I'm really against it.
I personally don't understand brand loyalty. I mean, I love Sephora, but I don't get that offended when people hate the place.
BloodMittens
Well-known member
Quote:
I'm not really offended that they hate the place. One of my friends doesn't like MAC because of Pamela Anderson and she refuses to go in there because she was a spokesperson. I don't care if she doesn't like them or anything. But when someone bashes the MA's without knowing them, that is what really really bothers me. Judging goes on all the time, but to call someone untalented because they are different really bothers me.
I have noticed the incline of color stories at the same time as the great products coming out once in awhile now... not all the time. It really bothers me that Estee Lauder has kinda overtaken the color collections and have been tossing them out there two or three a month.
I can sympathize with freelance makeup artists that have gone to school that are losing jobs because of MAC. I do feel sorry for them because in reality, that's what I wanted to do for a long time... but I don't have the money for schooling. I've tried for scholarships and failed miserably because most places think I'm a lost cause because of my extremely bad ADD and test taking skills.
So MAC is really a good option for me at this point, makeup is the thing that calms me down and keeps me focused. So yeah... that's another reason why I love MAC so much. They've kinda opened a door for me in a career in makeup that I really have no chance of getting with a school.
Originally Posted by Beauty Mark
While I think the age thing was ridiculous to bring it, I think KJ makes some good points about how the brand has changed and what it's doing to the makeup industry. The man who maintained that blog isn't just some bitter nobody; while taste is subjective, he's much more of an authority on cosmetic aesthetics than a lot of people are. It's great you like MAC so much. I still like some of the things there, but at the same time, I do question their ethics. Seeing how undercutting has hurt other industries/fields, I'm really against it. I personally don't understand brand loyalty. I mean, I love Sephora, but I don't get that offended when people hate the place. |
I'm not really offended that they hate the place. One of my friends doesn't like MAC because of Pamela Anderson and she refuses to go in there because she was a spokesperson. I don't care if she doesn't like them or anything. But when someone bashes the MA's without knowing them, that is what really really bothers me. Judging goes on all the time, but to call someone untalented because they are different really bothers me.
I have noticed the incline of color stories at the same time as the great products coming out once in awhile now... not all the time. It really bothers me that Estee Lauder has kinda overtaken the color collections and have been tossing them out there two or three a month.
I can sympathize with freelance makeup artists that have gone to school that are losing jobs because of MAC. I do feel sorry for them because in reality, that's what I wanted to do for a long time... but I don't have the money for schooling. I've tried for scholarships and failed miserably because most places think I'm a lost cause because of my extremely bad ADD and test taking skills.
So MAC is really a good option for me at this point, makeup is the thing that calms me down and keeps me focused. So yeah... that's another reason why I love MAC so much. They've kinda opened a door for me in a career in makeup that I really have no chance of getting with a school.
IvyTrini
Well-known member
If people want to run to the counter everytime MAC comes out with a new line, then so be it! Maybe other lines should come out with more innovative products to excite their followers like that. Anyway....I am not an artist although I would like to become one. I grew up in a place where good quality makeup was hard to get and super expensive. They also did NOTHING for the skintones of those in the Caribbean region nor did their lines relate to the vibe. I discovered MAC years ago and I will forever be a fan. I have used products from other lines and usually maybe only one colour in a collection may appeal to me. MAC consistantly brings out amazing colours and it shows women of colour that they don't always have to wear the basic browns or plums and have opened up a whole new colour palette when no one else did. They made colour exciting and acceptable. They have some of the most innovative print ads and I just love their all embracing concept of all ages, all races, all sexes.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
The fact they do some good isn't the issue. It's what they're doing wrong is the issue. Like most things that people are against, it's not an easy, obvious thing to be against or for (see: Wal-Mart and the many discussions here about it).
Quote:
I assume what KJ saw at fashion week provoked it, and I'm going to assume that the people used for fashion week are supposed to be the best. Again, I wasn't there, so I can't say.
It's not a nice thing to say, but some people simply are untalented.
While I'm not an MA nor do I ever intend on being one, undercutting in more personalized business bothers me, because you're screwing over a lot of people and yourself ultimately. I also feel like MUAs don't necessarily get the respect they deserve, which is why undercutting can occur.
Quote:
| Judging goes on all the time, but to call someone untalented because they are different really bothers me. |
I assume what KJ saw at fashion week provoked it, and I'm going to assume that the people used for fashion week are supposed to be the best. Again, I wasn't there, so I can't say.
It's not a nice thing to say, but some people simply are untalented.
While I'm not an MA nor do I ever intend on being one, undercutting in more personalized business bothers me, because you're screwing over a lot of people and yourself ultimately. I also feel like MUAs don't necessarily get the respect they deserve, which is why undercutting can occur.
aziza
Well-known member
^^^
I have to agree with you.
I'm having a hard time understanding why everyone -especially makeup artists- are so loyal to MAC/EL. There are many, many, alternatives out there (Nixie, NARS, UD, Yaby, Kiehls, LM, Smashbox etc, etc, etc)... so why support a company that is essentially driving you out of business?
All you out there who desire to be makeup artists... wisen up and look at the larger picture. It's only going to worsen if industry pros and consumers continue to accept and excuse their unethical business practices. Right now its runway shows and film....who knows how bad it'll get in the future.
I have to agree with you.
I'm having a hard time understanding why everyone -especially makeup artists- are so loyal to MAC/EL. There are many, many, alternatives out there (Nixie, NARS, UD, Yaby, Kiehls, LM, Smashbox etc, etc, etc)... so why support a company that is essentially driving you out of business?
All you out there who desire to be makeup artists... wisen up and look at the larger picture. It's only going to worsen if industry pros and consumers continue to accept and excuse their unethical business practices. Right now its runway shows and film....who knows how bad it'll get in the future.
devin
Well-known member
i agree with a couple of the previous posters. Mac is one of the very few companies in this gigantic industry that caters to darker skinned clients and is readily accessible. There are tons of companies whose colors don't go past Halle Berry of Jada Pinkett and are missing out on the lovely deeper tones and if they do they are too red or ashy looking. i don't know how people can make a blanket statement about an entire group of people or company. First off I doubt that they know every employee who works for Mac of which I am one of. To judge and say that "all" or even "most" Mac artists are untalented and dress and look like clowns and wear their makeup as such is ridiculous. Now all of a sudden none of the Mac products are any good and everything about Mac is wrong, I just don't get it.
I do understand being upset about your jobs being taken, because I would feel the same way, but this is what large companies do and it has been going on for ages. Money rules the world. I just get tired of everyone making blanket statements about Mac as a whole, stick to what you know, because I know plenty of amazingly talented artists at Mac.
Now I have said my peace. I'm done!
I do understand being upset about your jobs being taken, because I would feel the same way, but this is what large companies do and it has been going on for ages. Money rules the world. I just get tired of everyone making blanket statements about Mac as a whole, stick to what you know, because I know plenty of amazingly talented artists at Mac.Now I have said my peace. I'm done!
martygreene
Well-known member
Quote:
The "none of the products are any good" is pretty well founded, and can be backed up with physical data. The formulations have changed drastically, and not for the good for a professional. The inclusion of more waxes and oils which are detrimental to the skin, inclusion of SPF and titanium dioxide, addition of more fillers, and the reduction of pigment quality.
As for skin tones, yes- MAC caters to some darker skin tones for the consumer market. MAC used to cater to even darker skintones, and lighter, however these shades were discontinued when the aformentioned changes began to occurr. Also, there is definitely no shortage of lines who have wonderful matches for ALL global skin tones in professional products, and as always there is no match for custom mixing from the base pigments (which any good professional should know how to do).
Saying that this is what big companies do- I have to disagree. LVMH is a HUGE company, and doesn't do this. Big companies may buy other companies, but it's very unwise of them to destroy the purchasing base on which they were built. Having SAG and IATSE angry at your practices is really not a good way to maintain your branding, I hate to say it.
| Originally Posted by devin
i agree with a couple of the previous posters. Mac is one of the very few companies in this gigantic industry that caters to darker skinned clients and is readily accessible. There are tons of companies whose colors don't go past Halle Berry of Jada Pinkett and are missing out on the lovely deeper tones and if they do they are too red or ashy looking. i don't know how people can make a blanket statement about an entire group of people or company. First off I doubt that they know every employee who works for Mac of which I am one of. To judge and say that "all" or even "most" Mac artists are untalented and dress and look like clowns and wear their makeup as such is ridiculous. Now all of a sudden none of the Mac products are any good and everything about Mac is wrong, I just don't get it. I do understand being upset about your jobs being taken, because I would feel the same way, but this is what large companies do and it has been going on for ages. Money rules the world. I just get tired of everyone making blanket statements about Mac as a whole, stick to what you know, because I know plenty of amazingly talented artists at Mac.Now I have said my peace. I'm done!
|
The "none of the products are any good" is pretty well founded, and can be backed up with physical data. The formulations have changed drastically, and not for the good for a professional. The inclusion of more waxes and oils which are detrimental to the skin, inclusion of SPF and titanium dioxide, addition of more fillers, and the reduction of pigment quality.
As for skin tones, yes- MAC caters to some darker skin tones for the consumer market. MAC used to cater to even darker skintones, and lighter, however these shades were discontinued when the aformentioned changes began to occurr. Also, there is definitely no shortage of lines who have wonderful matches for ALL global skin tones in professional products, and as always there is no match for custom mixing from the base pigments (which any good professional should know how to do).
Saying that this is what big companies do- I have to disagree. LVMH is a HUGE company, and doesn't do this. Big companies may buy other companies, but it's very unwise of them to destroy the purchasing base on which they were built. Having SAG and IATSE angry at your practices is really not a good way to maintain your branding, I hate to say it.
erynnj
Well-known member
I feel that mac has gone down hill over the years quality wise, i am not going to sit here and say i hate them never buy their stuff again but i buy alot less because I am less than impressed with the quality of the new-er stuff not to mention the price has gone up way too much. Why would i spend $14 on an eyeshadow at mac when i can get one that IMO is much better quality like UD. I do feel that the whole idea of mac being a make up artist line has kind of vanished. Its more a consumer driven, sell, sell, sell company now. It used to be based on makeup artistry and REALLY good artists working there now, you are lucky if you a good artist works behind your counter. Not to mention the turn over with them every single time I go to my store its different people. I remember 6 years ago I had 3 artists that I would visit regularly in my local store. Now its a new face every time so wheres the loyalty? And quite honestly I know I would buy more when someone recognized me and took the the extra time with me but now, no one recognizes me and is quick to make the sale no more hey Erynn! how are you??.... so in turn they have kind of lost me as the die hard buy everything finatic that i use to be. *sigh* I miss those days!
chocolategoddes
Well-known member
I'm sure this has been said before but here's my opinion:
From what i know, MAC isn't what it used to be. It isn't as exlusive and high-quality as it once was and there are tons of other brands out there that could be better than MAC. But I just love the idea of MAC. How fun and artrsy the whole thing is. Its not just about looking pretty. I'll agree that the MAs are not really qualified, many of the employees i've encountered are not what I'd consider MAC worthy. And I hope that one day soon, MAC will return to the days that I've heard of so much on this site. But for now, I'm still gonna spend my allowance on MAC because I love the stuff, I want to support the brand, and hey,MAC is cool so I'm gonna be tempted to buy MAC just to say, " yeah, I'm wearing all MAC today!" We all have a little bit of that inside of us.
From what i know, MAC isn't what it used to be. It isn't as exlusive and high-quality as it once was and there are tons of other brands out there that could be better than MAC. But I just love the idea of MAC. How fun and artrsy the whole thing is. Its not just about looking pretty. I'll agree that the MAs are not really qualified, many of the employees i've encountered are not what I'd consider MAC worthy. And I hope that one day soon, MAC will return to the days that I've heard of so much on this site. But for now, I'm still gonna spend my allowance on MAC because I love the stuff, I want to support the brand, and hey,MAC is cool so I'm gonna be tempted to buy MAC just to say, " yeah, I'm wearing all MAC today!" We all have a little bit of that inside of us.
BEA2LS
Well-known member
Quote:
same as where i live.. clinique is much more popular than mac. don't get me wrong, i have many things that are mac and enjoy their products but it's just not the be all to end all around here. i like brighter, bolder looks but neuterals are much more popular (btw i live about an hour or so from nyc, so it's not exactly like i live in the middle of nowhere..)
| Originally Posted by lovemichelle
I don't know about everyone else, but where I live people swarm the Clinique counter. |
same as where i live.. clinique is much more popular than mac. don't get me wrong, i have many things that are mac and enjoy their products but it's just not the be all to end all around here. i like brighter, bolder looks but neuterals are much more popular (btw i live about an hour or so from nyc, so it's not exactly like i live in the middle of nowhere..)
MellyMac
Member
It is unfortunate that a company that gives so much is being targeted with such fury. Bottom line, when you enter into the industry as a MUA, hairstylist, whatever, you have to hold your head up high and represent yourself as a professional and take the higher road. Mac is the most recognized cosmetic company in the industry, and with that tile comes a lot of respect and disrespect too. When your on top people love you and hate you. There are so many opportunities for MUA's to become freelancers with MAC which will only add to their credibility as an artist. Like it or not, MAC artists are the most trained and most knowledgeable when it comes to most recent trends, techniques and they know their products. I love MAC and always will for their continued Viva Glam contributions and I respect the fact that they don't have to advertise but still lead the industry in trend.
Thank you MAC cosmetics for your continued commitment to push the envelope and yet keeping real for everyone of all ages, races and sexes!!!!
MUAH!
Thank you MAC cosmetics for your continued commitment to push the envelope and yet keeping real for everyone of all ages, races and sexes!!!!
MUAH!
Kuuipo
Well-known member
I think being under the Estee Lauder umbrella has made MAC even more acessible to people-its now in virtually every department store. You can find it all over the world! (with some companies you virtually have to hop on a plane!) It's huge,too huge to think about. With all this hugeness, MAC can be charitable.
pixichik77
Well-known member
Quote:
I must respectfully disagree with you on these two points; MAC may be more visible and known to the layman, and quite ubiquitous, but far from the most recognized and innovative "in the industry." And that happens to be one of the reasons sooooo many working artists tend to be angry/ambivialent with MAC. Many don't even use MAC, or only a few products. For example; a main reason MAC is used so extensively on Wicked is because the designer used to work for MAC; had he worked for another line he may have used that instead. Many, many other lines have more pigment, more range, and more versatility than MAC for the industry.
| Originally Posted by MellyMac
Mac is the most recognized cosmetic company in the industry....... Like it or not, MAC artists are the most trained and most knowledgeable when it comes to most recent trends, techniques |
I must respectfully disagree with you on these two points; MAC may be more visible and known to the layman, and quite ubiquitous, but far from the most recognized and innovative "in the industry." And that happens to be one of the reasons sooooo many working artists tend to be angry/ambivialent with MAC. Many don't even use MAC, or only a few products. For example; a main reason MAC is used so extensively on Wicked is because the designer used to work for MAC; had he worked for another line he may have used that instead. Many, many other lines have more pigment, more range, and more versatility than MAC for the industry.
scorplove
Well-known member
Quote:
I agree with you that MAC does NOT have to advertise and can literally sell itself. MAC customers COME TO THEM and most will attend any event that MAC throws just because it's MAC.
I also agree that there are BETTER pro lines out there for film, TV, photos, stage, etc. and were created for those purposes. I was trained at a time when MAC didn't exist or wasn't really known, except by independent artists. In the beginning, when MAC first came on the scene they had LOVELY stuff and every MUA was enthralled with it. The backlash came when MAC began undercutting the freelance MUAs at shows and photoshoots. The final nail in the coffin when they threw their weight around in TV and Film and started messing with the powerful makeup artist union. You don't do that. It's very "Walmartish". MAC is becoming the Walmart and Macys of the makeup industry and that's not a good thing.
Another thing I will say is NOT everyone knows how to use MAC's foundations properly. Almost all the women that I've ever met or came to my counter had really messed up skin or the foundation looked like garbage on them. The MAC girls on the other hand ALWAYS look flawless. I finally asked one of them what the secret is and they said you MUST USE A BRUSH WITH STUDIO FIX or the liquid foundations. She also said many of these women will wear a liquid underneath the STUDIO FIX and wonder why their look like crap. MAC sells PRESSED POWDERS that are supposed to be worn over their foundations. NOT THE STUDIO FIX. Also, Studio Fix is not supposed to be used as a touch up throughout the day.
It really is a pro line that's being used for streetwear. Many pro lines can be used this way, the key is knowing how to not look ridiculous in the street.
I hope this situation with MAC has been resolved. It is true that they have severely deflated the wages for the freelance industry though. Many artists are having a difficult time forgetting that.
| Originally Posted by pixichik77
I must respectfully disagree with you on these two points; MAC may be more visible and known to the layman, and quite ubiquitous, but far from the most recognized and innovative "in the industry." And that happens to be one of the reasons sooooo many working artists tend to be angry/ambivialent with MAC. Many don't even use MAC, or only a few products. For example; a main reason MAC is used so extensively on Wicked is because the designer used to work for MAC; had he worked for another line he may have used that instead. Many, many other lines have more pigment, more range, and more versatility than MAC for the industry. |
I agree with you that MAC does NOT have to advertise and can literally sell itself. MAC customers COME TO THEM and most will attend any event that MAC throws just because it's MAC.
I also agree that there are BETTER pro lines out there for film, TV, photos, stage, etc. and were created for those purposes. I was trained at a time when MAC didn't exist or wasn't really known, except by independent artists. In the beginning, when MAC first came on the scene they had LOVELY stuff and every MUA was enthralled with it. The backlash came when MAC began undercutting the freelance MUAs at shows and photoshoots. The final nail in the coffin when they threw their weight around in TV and Film and started messing with the powerful makeup artist union. You don't do that. It's very "Walmartish". MAC is becoming the Walmart and Macys of the makeup industry and that's not a good thing.
Another thing I will say is NOT everyone knows how to use MAC's foundations properly. Almost all the women that I've ever met or came to my counter had really messed up skin or the foundation looked like garbage on them. The MAC girls on the other hand ALWAYS look flawless. I finally asked one of them what the secret is and they said you MUST USE A BRUSH WITH STUDIO FIX or the liquid foundations. She also said many of these women will wear a liquid underneath the STUDIO FIX and wonder why their look like crap. MAC sells PRESSED POWDERS that are supposed to be worn over their foundations. NOT THE STUDIO FIX. Also, Studio Fix is not supposed to be used as a touch up throughout the day.
It really is a pro line that's being used for streetwear. Many pro lines can be used this way, the key is knowing how to not look ridiculous in the street.
I hope this situation with MAC has been resolved. It is true that they have severely deflated the wages for the freelance industry though. Many artists are having a difficult time forgetting that.
breechan
Well-known member
I hope all the people who feel this way are contacting MAC via their contact us section of their website. It's fine to vent your frustrations among friends and on discussion boards, but if people don't contact MAC, things will never change. Basically, I'm encouraging you all to contact MAC and tell them how you feel.
