Talk to me.

[Susanne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbella ^^^Wow. Really? Then you must not visit chatter or deep thoughts often. Now I feel like you are taking it personal. I think the comment was made because it is apparent to others, besides myself, that I am being quite "ganged up" on in this conversation. And, no, not necessarily by you or any one long-standing member.

I was in a deep thoughts thread last year where I felt personally attacked. I will not mention which discussion it was.
I did not feel comfortable with some of the opinions there, but made my point of view more than clear I guess and left this thread.
Not everyone must have the same opinion, I cannot understand them all - but this is life I guess.
I am old enough to say: This does not touch me. I know who I am, no need to justify it.

Sometimes it is wiser not to answer every comment if you feel it is not your level anymore.

 

[Susanne]

And a last thought on personal chatter in the discussion threads:

Please do not forget that we international members always get a new LE collection with a huge release delay - sometimes four weeks later than the US and Canadian girls do!!

How can we just talk about a collection or products we have not seen yet? Should we stay away like: Yes, I want this and that in three weeks - I will be back then when I have tested it?
I mean, it is hard enough to wait sometimes - why not spending the waiting time together in these threads? Waiting together makes more fun. At least for me.

 

[nunu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susanne I am in the discussion threads every day. I answer all the questions as best as I can, so do other members. We are not all rude here! Come on!

I know that everyone in there isn't rude and is exacrly the opposite. I have witnessd a few people being rude and i stated why they were being rude in the first page.

My response to the post that you've quoted me in was trying to see where the "brutal" treatment was as i haven't witnessed that in any thread on here. I'm sure if there was anyone being"brutally" treated someone would've notified the moderators to do something about it.

 

[banana1234]

this thread makes me sad, i didnt realise things like this were going on, ive only had positive experiences on this board

i apologise if anyone thinks that i was being rude in any thread
i usually try to defend my opinion rather than be rude, i hope that i have never offended or hurt some one

 

[Jinni]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susanne And a last thought on personal chatter in the discussion threads: Please do not forget that we international members always get a new LE collection with a huge release delay - sometimes four weeks later than the US and Canadian girls do!! How can we just talk about a collection or products we have not seen yet? Should we stay away like: Yes, I want this and that in three weeks - I will be back then when I have tested it? I mean, it is hard enough to wait sometimes - why not spending the waiting time together in these threads? Waiting together makes more fun. At least for me.

I'm an international member too. I used to go to the color threads to see what people in the US thought about the products, because it would make it easier to decide what to get when the collection reached Europe.

Personally I don't bother with those threads anymore since I have to dig through so much off topic stuff. I don't see why all the talk about pets, jobs, boy friends can't be in the chatter section? It seems like the perfect place for it.

 

[Janice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TISH1124 I think that now that people are aware of some of the problems ...they will make adjustments in tone and overall behavior...

I really hope so, some of the terms used in this thread to describe whatever goes on in the Color Collection dicussions are... shocking. I would hate to think that a forum I founded on an open arms acceptance approach to diversity would suddenly lose it's appeal because the focus is on some sophomoric "mean girl" clique behavior in one section of the board because it is dominated by highly active regular posters. (I am not implying that is what is truly going on, but if you read this thread at all that is the perception you get.)

We aren't making any changes to the moderation of the CC forum, but we will be implementing an idea that thrown out earlier to assist those who don't have time to wade through the OT chatter (such as myself) for the information they need.

To those active posters - If the topic veers completely OT to where discussions are about sex, or other adult topics please move the conversation to the forum that is labeled with an adult warning or to PM. We do have young adults and teens who regularly visit the site.

 

[User27]

*****

 

[rbella]

Thank you so much. You have no idea what that means to me. Others have informed me about the pm's and I knew that would happen based on my previous experiences anyway. But, I appreciate you having the courage to come here and voice a very unpopular opinion. Well, an unpopular opinion amongst those that will speak.



It saddens me that my personal life and my opinions in general are being raked over the coals. But, it doesn't surprise me.

I honestly don't care to know who the message was from or to even see it. I would just send it to Janice and Holstrom4.

Thank you so much for the kind message and I appreciate you looking out for me.

 

[Vixxan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casadalinnis rbella, I hope people take it easy on you and please know I'm sorry that people made this thread a witchhunt and you just taught me a valuable lesson. I'm sorry I even brought up locating the post you brought up in that pm but please be aware some people are putting out your personal business as quick as hitting a send button.

I knew before I made my post that the back lash would be ugly. I think putting someone's personal business into this is brutal. It's not fair, it's mean and it's a method of bulling.

I am the person that used the word brutal to describe some of the things going on here but at not time did I say "the all colour collections threads are full of gangs, cliques and brutal people is just plain out false and stretching the truth far beyond it's means". As a matter of fact I didn't even mention the color thread.

The adminstrator asked for feedback some of us gave feedback knowing the backlash that was heading our way. But to put someones personal business in this is not fair and it's definitely not brutal, not at all. Is that a fly? This is the perfect example of why people don't speak up. It can't be any clearer than this. Please do something to stop this ladies personal business from being dragged into this.

 

[rbella]

Thank you. I appreciate your words. I do take some responsibility with regard to the fact that I put myself out there on the internet. I guess I just never thought it would be used as a way to insult me.

I appreciate your support. You are very sweet to be concerned for me.

 

[ms. kendra]

I don't post much except here and there in Beauty of Color, or the "best/worst/top 3-5-10" threads.

My favorite forums are the Product Swatches, Member FOTD and Sale/Swap.
I thoroughly enjoy the pics that people upload and appreciate the time they take to do swatches. I plan to contribute as soon as I get a decent camera.
I love the FOTD's, and look forward to seeing them everyday. There are some talented members here and I get tons of ideas from them.

Regarding the Color Collection threads, I'm sorry but I have to agree that they are cliquish, and it seems that newer posters aren't as welcomed or don't get "thanked"...even when they've said the same exact thing a popular poster has said. This is my observation.

Also, sometimes when a new CC thread has been started it will be pages long very quickly, and I'm wondering how there can be that many posts when the product hasn't even been launched yet, and most of the time it's random conversations. Why not make a "Random Thoughts" thread, or something similar if you want to do off topic chit chat?? If I'm in a CC thread then I want to read/discuss that collection and anything that pertains to it. Anything else is just excessive and distracting, especially when certain members only choose to font with each other and ignore everyone else.

I personally don't look for affirmation or acceptance online.
I come for what I enjoy and keep it moving, however Janice wanted us to express how we felt and people should be able to do so without any backlash or arguing back and forth.

If you choose not to believe that things are the way someone else sees it then good for you, but that doesn't mean a person doesn't feel that way and shouldn't express it.

And for the record I have to say that out of all the regular posters TISH has always helped me and answered any questions I've asked.

This is my 2 cents.

 

[rbella]

Thank you for your response and input. It's good to hear from members from all areas of the board. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond and I'm glad that you were able to find help on the board.

 

[Janice]

I was having a hard time understanding what all these cryptic posts were about. It's become clear to me there is beef spilling out into this thread. I sincerely hope the parties can work out their differences. If anyone has any input on issues other than the clique atmosphere of a certain area of the forum I really would like to go back getting input. We have had some great discussion and have clearly segmented one issue out and identified it clearly.

We're adults and there is absolutely nothing I as an administrator can do about personal problems or the atmosphere of a clique (and if I were that crazy it would only serve to completely alienate a population of my forum). There is no way I would consider moderation as the answer to that. I firmly believe we are adults and can conduct ourselves in a kind and respectful manner to one another and maybe sometimes it's good to take a step back and recognize that. I can only encourage those who feel unwelcome in certain places that this is OUR home, we all share a roof and are all equally welcome to post in any discussion.

Let's get back to the original topic, if you have something to contribute to the thread please do.

 

[VeXedPiNk]

It's really sad to see how this thread has developed... at first it was an "airy" discussion about various concerns, and now it seems to have become a full blown war! And yet all I see are well-known members, with a few of us lesser known members posting... well I guess I'll throw two more cents in:

I joined Specktra for it's information... but stayed for it's members. This is honestly the best site for learning anything you need to know about makeup. The improvements I've seen in my makeup application and colour choices can be directly attributed to Specktra. And I love how everyone here seems to be so friendly with everyone else. I don't really have anyone in my life to share my love of makeup with, so this is my outlet.

But, with that being said, it can be rather difficult to engage in some of the discussions that occur in the Colour Collection threads. When the conversation veers into the direction of 'inside jokes' or what-not, how can an 'outsider' possibly participate? In real life, you walk up to a group of people and join their conversation - you instantly guage their reaction to what you say and decide whether or not to continue. On an online forum, you don't have the same physical ques to go by and tone can be misconstrued from reader to reader. Therefore you refrain from joining the conversation for fear of rejection.

Never would I expect to see people's freedom of speech revoked or censored. But I do not think it would be a bad idea to simply limit the personal chatter in the Colour Collection threads. Not completely remove it, because then why would anyone even bother to read them - the chatter keeps them interesting. But as soon as the conversion digresses into personal chatter that only those 'in the know' can join in... well, that's when the conversation needs to be kept on track.

I know that a lot of issues have arisen on this thread and a lot of responses have been posted by regular posters. I only hope that my humble opinion as one of those that do not regularly post is at least considered. I honestly do not think there are any regular posters who try to exclude anyone, but it would help if you remembered that there are those who don't know the inside jokes or the personal life stories of everyone - and sometimes we end up feeling a little lost in the conversation!

No matter what happens, this place is awesome and I'll continue to use it as an irreplaceable resource.

 

[LMD84]

rbella - you quoted one of my replies in the holiday colour collection thred and labelled it as snarky. i said darn you guys for creating lemmings for me

refering to the mineral blushes. (can't think of my exact wording right now!)

in no way was i being snarky - i'm sorry if teh smiley made it seem that way but i use the tounge smiley a heck of alot! just check my other posts! so i'm sorry if anybody thought i came across snarky because that was not my intention! as far as the other quotes i have not taken them to be snarky either.

as far as the thanking button goes i'm shocked that it causes an issue. i thank people who have answered a question that i asked, or add a review or opinion that i agree with or think is interesting. i'd never just thank people because they're cool or whatever! that's kinda silly!

 

[Winthrop44]

no message

 

[nichollecaren]

It really has taken a sad turn, and people are really hurt. I view this not as the problem but the symptom. Something is WRONG if a few snotty comments on a message board can do this.

People. this is really disheartening. I think too much is being put in here. Specktra is an internet forum, where people discuss makeup and then some other stuff. As was demonstrated last week, if Specktra is down, life goes on---without these people (cliques, or what-not). If you find yourself being hurt it means you have put too much in, and therefore expect too much!

Its unhealthy.

I think that this collective resentment is the real issue, and not the few persons that have been less than nice (sometimes downright mean) in the color collections. I am not saying that a rude comment is okay, and that the issue of the cliquish behavior should not be addressed. I agree wholeheartedly. BUT the level of resentment I see coming out in this thread speaks to a deeper problem which can only be addressed by each individual, at home, away from their computer.

JM2C

 

[euphrosyne_rose]

I mentioned it before, but my feedback is once again that I think the Clearance Bin could use some better guidelines to be able to start using it. Just this past 3 or 4 months I've had major issues with it. My main beef is that I'm so tired of being PM'd about an item and get down to the business of selling whatever the item is and then never hearing back from the buyer. I know in that case there isn't much anyone can do about someone being rude like that, but again I've noticed that more with newer members. That's not to say that hasn't happened with older members either, but not as often. I had someone ask me about a palette and a single e/s so I gave a price for it including shipping and the member wrote back that they decided they wanted only the palette, but that was after several days of the original PM. That's all fine and dandy b/c at least they replied. I know not everyone can respond ASAP. Well, I PM'd back with a new price for just the palette and didn't hear anything back for almost a week. Out of the blue I got a PM from that same person saying that I could send them an invoice with Paypal for the palette. I immediately sent the invoice. This was about 2 weeks ago or more and I have yet to be paid. At this point, I've put the palette up for sale again b/c I know that person isn't going to pay me, despite sending 2 reminders through Paypal. I don't know what can be done about some of the issues people are having with the Clearance bin and I would love to hear what other people are experiencing but I think the guidelines to be able to use it should be more strict.

On another note: also not something anyone can really do but I want to put my 2 cents in on this. I think it is absolutely ridiculous to price gouge on LE items or even regular items that were d/c'd. I've been trying for almost 2 years to find a Stereo Rose MSF and can't seem to find one for under $50. Knowing that half the people who bought theirs brand new form the store didn't pay that much for it, I think it's awful to expect someone else to have to pay that much for it, regardless that it was LE or not. With the way times are these days with the economy, it's really crappy to expect someone to pay these absurd prices for something like that. I can understand wanting to make a profit and getting your money back for what you paid for it but some of the prices I've seen on things is just RIDICULOUS. People can argue with me about it and that's fine. Just my thoughts on it. I try to keep my prices on my stuff reasonable and often include shipping prices in my prices.

Janice, I think things are going to be fine and everyone will work through their issues. You have done an amazing job with this site and I'm glad that I have it to look forward to when I get home.

 

[Camnagem]

I haven't yet posted in this thread because I wanted to think about the topic for a bit before responding. Being a newer member I can't comment on how the forum has changed, but I can comment on my somewhat recent experience of registering and posting.

First, I couldn't agree with Winthrop's above post more.

I'm not well known, I'm new to posting, and the only social contact I've had with any Specktra members outside of the forums is a massive total of maybe 3 PM's. That being said, I do post quite regularly in the CC threads, and I am guilty of my share of off-topic moments.

I never felt shunned or ignored when I first started posting...I actually had the exact opposite response. Members new and old were welcoming and kind. Is there enabling going on? Sure. I don't see how there could be a discussion thread of a new collection without it to be totally honest. Opinions are being shared, good and bad, and as opinions do...they may sway some who are on the fence. Is the enabling forcing me to buy things I shouldn't? No, but I think that's a topic that will never be agreed upon fully. Everyone reacts differently to social interactions/pressures, it's just a part of being human.

I can understand how off-topic chatter in the CC threads can be annoying if you're looking for information only, in a rush, or frankly could care less about personal stories. However, asking those who are heavily involved in those threads to totally remove that chat is a rather harsh fix, imo. The off-topic chatter comes about naturally, and trying to police that seems like an utter nightmare to me (both from a posting standpoint and a moderating standpoint). I think the idea of having a FAQ section is a perfect solution. It will give those who just want info a quick place to look for it, and the posters who enjoy the day to day chit chat can continue on.

I can't comment on the chatter or deep thoughts sections, as I have posted there maybe a handful of times. My experience in the clearance bin has been wonderfully positive (maybe I've just been lucky). I'm sad for those who haven't shared my positive experience, but I'm hoping that this thread can help change that down the line.

Just my long winded (sorry!) 2 cents.

 

[rbella]

If you have just started to read this thread, I have deleted many comments pertaining to personal information that was shared about me. Very personal, and quite embarrasing information that was shared via pm's during what I thought was a debate.

If any of you wonder why this started becoming "personal" to me, perhaps take a moment and put yourself in my shoes. I am not guiltless, but to take information about me and start a "smear campaign" across the board including personal and embarrassing information is unfair and wrong. Janice, I'm sorry if this doesn't fit into what you want written in here, but I feel I at least deserve this if no action is going to take place.

Winthrop-I never denied I was once part of the problem. And, your comment makes zero sense to me regarding pointing out TISH because I have no clue when that took place? I don't remember that?


I have every right at this point to take things personally. This is an extremely popular thread for being in the least popular section of the board. I have a plethora of "old buddies" from Specktra who are no longer on here for the very reason I am arguing. In addition, those friends contacted me to let me know they were receiving the same dumbass "freedom of speech" bullshit pm regarding this thread. It's amazing how many people have logged in to read about this, yet haven't been to the site in months.

So, if you think it is strange that AT THIS POINT, I am taking it personally, then I claim that is your issue. I don't see how anyone couldn't. Please go back and re-read my statements from the beginning. You can see my tone changed around the time I was being made aware of all this. My reasoning for debating the issue was to help some members who came to me as an Advisor, and asked for help. I never went to Janice because I did not have their permission. I stayed in contact with them to try and help make them feel a part of the board. Then, Janice started this thread, without any notification from me that there was a problem, and I thought it was a good time to discuss it.

I am not trying to say that my take on it, or those who contacted me complaining were 100% in the right. I just wanted to address it without full on denial that there might, just might be a problem. And, yes, before you respond to me with a reply that you also have received pm's, I understand that there are others who disagree. Fine, I get that. But, that doesn't take away from the rights of those who want to be heard but are too timid to do so because of ridiculous bullying in the first place. All sides deserve to be heard. MINE included. And I mean it when I say "heard", not bashed.

Let me reiterate what the first message contained:

Janice "Okay, so I've been getting alot of emails lately about the tone of the forum being different. I talked to these people a little, and I felt that if those few were motivated enough to send me a email then maybe there are more of you out there who feel the same way. "

"Is there something different that the general population is having a hard time adjusting to? Has our policy of being able to talk openly somehow changed? Are people feeling alot of pressure from certain individuals? Talk to me, let's see if I can help."

I would ask any of you to read those two quotes and tell me I am debating the issue because of "my personal problems". That is so friggin' insulting I am sick of it. Yes, now it is personal, at the time it was not.

"the tone of the forum being different" and "are people feeling alot of pressure from certain individuals" ~ If I never sent anything to Janice regarding what people were telling me, how else would she come to this conclusion? Because I am not the ONLY person who feels this way.

Please, address only your complaints from here on out and I would appreciate any backhanded comments or addressing me and any past issues I shared with friends in a "private area" be left out of it. This isn't about ME.

I felt I deserved the right to say how I feel since there will be no consequences, but I don't want to be a part of the issue anymore.

Best of luck to all of you.

-Rbella