2008 Presidential election - poll

[user79]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohemianSheila Real Christianity states that we take care of widows and orphans. Real Christianity isn't about the self-interest of me and my relationship with God. God inspires us to be involved in our communities and take care of people. If we are taking care of people the way that God calls us to love and care for people - GOVERNMENT ISN'T NECESSARY TO REGULATE THESE THINGS. It becomes a moot point. Why regulate something that isn't an issue. You're talking about making a radical change in government - I'm talking about making a radical change in being. I'm talking about radically changing the way we think about caring for people. I'm also saying that if a person claims to be a Christian, the Bible supports what I just stated. The New Testament isn't about sitting around and talking about God, it's filled with people in action taking care of others in the name of God - ie, those with physical afflications (disability), the elderly (social security), the orphans (social services), & the widows (I would also add single mothers in this).

I'm not trying to get involved in this thread about McCain and Obama, but honestly I had to respond to this.

You're of course forgetting a huge point: there is a huge proportion of people who do not believe in Christianity, and want absolutely no part of any Church organization or services. I'm not American so I guess things are diff over there, but that would be my personal nightmare, where I had to rely on the Church, of all places, for absolutely essential things such as social programs and welfare. There goes secularism right out the window!!! Believe what you want and pratice whatever faith you desire, but leave religion out of public life and politics. Well, I guess I'm speaking from an outsiders perspective, but even in Europe secularism is under threat and it is freaking scary!

Did you know they now have a form of court system in Britain that practices sharia law? Scary, scary thought!! People need to speak up against the encroachment of religion into secular life, if it doesn't stop, I think the western world and its democracy will be gravely under threat.

I am not against religion, but it should have absolutely no part of public and state life, that way everyone will be absolutely free to do and believe what they want. A secular society is the only free society!

 

[TISH1124]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous I'm not trying to get involved in this thread about McCain and Obama, but honestly I had to respond to this. You're of course forgetting a huge point: there is a huge proportion of people who do not believe in Christianity, and want absolutely no part of any Church organization or services. I'm not American so I guess things are diff over there, but that would be my personal nightmare, where I had to rely on the Church, of all places, for absolutely essential things such as social programs and welfare. There goes secularism right out the window!!! Believe what you want and pratice whatever faith you desire, but leave religion out of public life and politics. Well, I guess I'm speaking from an outsiders perspective, but even in Europe secularism is under threat and it is freaking scary! Did you know they now have a form of court system in Britain that practices sharia law? Scary, scary thought!! People need to speak up against the encroachment of religion into secular life, if it doesn't stop, I think the western world and its democracy will be gravely under threat. I am not against religion, but it should have absolutely no part of public and state life, that way everyone will be absolutely free to do and believe what they want. A secular society is the only free society!

100%...Thank you that is the point I was trying to make.

 

[Shimmer]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous People need to speak up against the encroachment of religion into secular life, if it doesn't stop, I think the western world and its democracy will be gravely under threat. I am not against religion, but it should have absolutely no part of public and state life, that way everyone will be absolutely free to do and believe what they want. A secular society is the only free society!

You do realize that society has, for millenia, been defined under some sort of religious practice? ALL of society, everywhere, has been somehow defined under some sort of religious foundation.
Religion is inescapably a part of public and state life because regardless of one's denomination religion is a sort of form of moral compass, and decisions are made using the moral compass.
There's nothing wrong with that.
There's just something wrong with only ONE religion being the guide, because history has proven time and again that when that happens, the ONE religion that is 'in charge' tends to become an asshole.

 

[TISH1124]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

^^^ Correct but with all the religions that are in the world...How would this possibly work???

 

[Shimmer]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

One can't expect to say "Put aside that which you believe to the core of your being" and have the statement go over well.
It works by people working together, compromising, giving a little and getting a little, respecting, empathizing, and being mature rational adults.

Of course, that would be a stretch for a fair portion of the world's population.

 

[TISH1124]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Of course, that would be a stretch for a fair portion of the world's population.

Exactly!! People can't even get along on a message board

 

[Shimmer]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by TISH1127 Exactly!! People can't even get along on a message board

I understand what you're saying but again, one has to realize that religion is something close to a person's soul and...
what gives someone who 'doesn't' have religion position above someone who does?

(Please recognize I'm not speaking of Christianity specifically but of ALL religions.)

 

[user79]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

I don't think that just because religion has been a shaping force in past centuries, and still is today, that having a completely secular society is not possible. We've done a pretty darn good job of it in many western democracies, the problem is that the overly-political correctness and not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings, and bending over backwards for special interest groups and religious minorities (I'm speaking of Europe too, especially in Europe and also in Canada) has meant that secularism, what we've worked so hard for, is slowly being disintegrated. Special laws and blind eyes are being turned to the encroachment of religion into political life again. Anyway this is a bit off topic and might be worthy of its own thread...but the thought that there are legally binding sharia adjudication systems in Britain is entirely frightening! There are many more examples as well, where religious groups have attained "special treatment" on important issues such as family law and freedom of speech, only because our spineless governments don't want to offend or piss off demographically important voters. Secularism is the only way that people off all faiths and atheists and agnostics can live together in harmony, but of course, some religious groups don't want this at all because they want to dominate public life and convert people.

BTW regarding Jamie's comment above, secularism is not saying that no religion is better than religion. It is just a clear division of state and public life from religious practices and interest groups.

 

[TISH1124]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer I understand what you're saying but again, one has to realize that religion is something close to a person's soul and... what gives someone who 'doesn't' have religion position above someone who does? (Please recognize I'm not speaking of Christianity specifically but of ALL religions.)

I do understand...I have been a religious person all of my life and my faith is the core of what my family lives by. I practice my faith at home and in a Christian church ...Mind you I can count the amount of times I have missed going to church on Sundays. So trust me .... I know what religion is and what it means to each person that practices it..But I also know that most religions differ greatly in their practices and beliefs.
I am not disagreeing ..I am merely stating I can never see govenment standards being regulated based on religion.

 

[Shimmer]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous I don't think that just because religion has been a shaping force in past centuries, and still is today, that having a completely secular society is not possible. We've done a pretty darn good job of it in many western democracies, the problem is that the overly-political correctness and not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings, and bending over backwards for special interest groups and religious minorities (I'm speaking of Europe too, especially in Europe and also in Canada) has meant that secularism, what we've worked so hard for, is slowly being disintegrated. Special laws and blind eyes are being turned to the encroachment of religion into political life again. Anyway this is a bit off topic and might be worthy of its own thread...but the thought that there are legally binding sharia adjudication systems in Britain is entirely frightening! There are many more examples as well, where religious groups have attained "special treatment" on important issues such as family law and freedom of speech, only because our spineless governments don't want to offend or piss off demographically important voters. Secularism is the only way that people off all faiths and atheists and agnostics can live together in harmony, but of course, some religious groups don't want this at all because they want to dominate public life and convert people. BTW regarding Jamie's comment above, secularism is not saying that no religion is better than religion. It is just a clear division of state and public life from religious practices and interest groups.

But how do you make that divide?
How do you tell someone who believes to the core of their being in +++++++ religion NOT to use that as a moral compass when making decisions?

 

[Shimmer]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by TISH1127 I do understand...I have been a religious person all of my life and my faith is the core of what my family lives by. I practice my faith at home and in a Christian church ...Mind you I can count the amount of times I have missed going to church on Sundays. So trust me .... I know what religion is and what it means to each person that practices it..But I also know that most religions differ greatly in their practices and beliefs. I am not disagreeing ..I am merely stating I can never see govenment standards being regulated based on religion.

And they shouldn't be!

But one can't expect religion NOT to influence our leaders' decisions. That's all I'm saying.

 

[TISH1124]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer And they shouldn't be! But one can't expect religion NOT to influence our leaders' decisions. That's all I'm saying.

Oh I agree with that point...Absolutely...However the Leader has to comprehend that his personal religious beliefs do not speak for the entire worlds beliefs....And he is to represent all of the US and they all do not live and practice his religious beliefs.

 

[user79]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer But how do you make that divide? How do you tell someone who believes to the core of their being in +++++++ religion NOT to use that as a moral compass when making decisions?

People can make any decision they wish based on whatever faith or belief system they have, that is beside the point. But the state should not. Government officials, public servants and parliamentarians should have enough integrity not to let their religious beliefs interfere with their public work. It really is that simple. In multicultural, multiethnic, and multireligious societies as ours, you just cannot rule by religion anymore because it is simply too divisive. And you do this by not allowing special interest and religious groups to attain special rights that differ from national laws, and not integrating religious aspects into the education system, etc. It hinders integration and is a huge social problem in Europe, as well as other countries, because it exacerbates social conflict between different groups, especially immigrants and locals.

 

[Shimmer]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous And you do this by not allowing special interest and religious groups to attain special rights that differ from national laws.

Yes..

 

[lizardprincesa]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

from post 193 of this thread

Originally Posted by aleksis210 View Post

Quote:

...I've found these on the internet and I sure hope that they are misworded ...

A Fantastic Example of how
Weeds of Hate are planted in people's minds...

By the time one gets to this last line of this person's post,
Poisoning can occur, if a potential voter is sitting on the proverbial fence...

Quote:

Originally Posted by honyd wE CAN NOT LET WHOMEVER WINS TAKE OUR COUNTRY DOWN ANY FURTHER.

No, we cannot afford it. You are right!

Our children's Future is at stake.

Voting at polling locations begins in less than 24 hours!!

Please THINK carefully.

Please VOTE.

CherylFaith

!!!! HOPE CHANGE !!!!

​

 

[Shimmer]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardprincesa from post 193 of this thread Originally Posted by aleksis210 View Post A Fantastic Example of how Weeds of Hate are planted in people's minds... By the time one gets to this last line of this person's post, Poisoning can occur, if a potential voter is sitting on the proverbial fence... No, we cannot afford it. You are right! Our children's Future is at stake. Voting at poliing locations begins in less than 24 hours!! Please THINK carefully. Please VOTE. CherylFaith !!!! HOPE CHANGE !!!!

That's not hate. Direct quotes taken (perhaps out of context) aren't hate.
What you're doing RIGHT NOW is poisoning, planting seeds of hate, and acting the way you are decrying.
That post, right there, you're behaving in the manner you pretend to deplore.

Alexis was banned for her behavior, behavior you had no small part in goading, leave it alone, let it die. There's no need to quote her posts further in attempts to stir the pot.

Please, by all means, discuss something relevant with the current vein of the topic. But what you're dredging up was handled, discussed, and moved past. Do the same.

 

[TISH1124]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer That's not hate. Direct quotes taken (perhaps out of context) aren't hate. Alexis was banned for her behavior, behavior you had no small part in goading, leave it alone, let it die. There's no need to quote her posts further in attempts to stir the pot. Please, by all means, discuss something relevant with the current vein of the topic. But what you're dredging up was handled, discussed, and moved past. Do the same.

Agreed! Lets not rehash the past...Move forward! Change only occurs with movement...Let's keep it moving

 

[user79]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

I have to agree. Let's please move on from the negative posts a few pages back, action was taken from Staff and hopefully the discussion can move on now to a more mature level. Otherwise it will just go round in circles and end up in another locked thread. :/

 

[lizardprincesa]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer That's not hate. Direct quotes taken (perhaps out of context) aren't hate.

Post 193
If people want to read about hate, it is their perogative.


Quote:

What you're doing RIGHT NOW is poisoning, planting seeds of hate, and acting the way you are decrying.

Are you sure?

Quote:

That post, right there, you're behaving in the manner you pretend to deplore.

Really??

Quote:

Alexis was banned for her behavior,

Thank You Mods!

Quote:

behavior you had no small part in goading,

Really? I do not character assasinate like a junior high school student.
In fact, I don't charcter assasinate.

Quote:

leave it alone, let it die. There's no need to quote her posts further in attempts to stir the pot.

Great idea.

No, we cannot afford it. You are right!

Our children's Future is at stake.

Voting at polling locations begins in less than 24 hours!!

Please THINK carefully.

Please VOTE.

CherylFaith

!!!! HOPE CHANGE !!!!

​

 

[Shimmer]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardprincesa Are you sure? Really?? Really? I do not character assasinate like a junior high school student. In fact, I don't charcter assasinate.

Yes really, yes, you do.



Regarding the polls tomorrow...y'all who are going and are expecting long lines etc. may want to bring a book or do what my sister (she's 12) advised:
Grab a Nintendo DS and a Brain Age or similar game and play it while you're waiting. Beats the heck out of standing there staring off into space.

Also, it's not just presidential election day, there are a number of local (to the individual) elections going on, check your local news station's website for an overview of the candidates for all of the elections, and the propositions you'll be voting for.