2008 Presidential election - poll

[miss_cinday]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by elegant-one The other thing that ticks me off...Obama made a statement (to a group of young people) that we should pay for college for other people. No one paid for our son to go to college. He worked 3 jobs! while he earned several degrees graduating Summa Cum Laude each time. Plus he earned scholarships for academic achievements & found ways to earn extra money by simply writing essays which most kids didn't do - because they were too lazy or busy partying. Good heavens, our son still works 2 jobs. He is a Professor & owns his own business. I've been through that stage of my life during our job transitions & I certainly don't want to pay for anyone else's children now.

Just to let you know, you are currently paying for young adults to go to college through federal (pell grant) and state grants. You probably paid for my college education too because I was a recipient of those grants and without them i would have never been able to attend and graduate and eventually become a contributing member of society. For that I thank everyone who has contributed to my college education.
And just because your son received scholarships for writing essays doesnt mean all the other kids were "too lazy or busy partying."

 

[Jinni]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by elegant-one The other thing that ticks me off...Obama made a statement (to a group of young people) that we should pay for college for other people.

Where I live, college/university is paid for by the state through taxes. That means that the only thing that determines who will recieve a college education is the applicants qualifications/grades. If you work hard and you're smart (like your son) your will be accepted to your school of choice. If you're lazy or too busy partying... probably not unless you are exceptionally smart. I don't see how a system like that can upset anyone. Yes, you are paying for someone else's education, but ultimately it benefits everyone since you get the most qualified people in the positions where they can do the most good. And if your grades aren't good enough to get accepted, there are still other state-funded education options available.

 

[HeavenLeiBlu]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_cinday Just to let you know, you are currently paying for young adults to go to college through federal (pell grant) and state grants. You probably paid for my college education too because I was a recipient of those grants and without them i would have never been able to attend and graduate and eventually become a contributing member of society. For that I thank everyone who has contributed to my college education. And just because your son received scholarships for writing essays doesnt mean all the other kids were "too lazy or busy partying."

Not only that, I'm very sure that if he applied for financial aid and met the income requirements, he ALSO received at the very least, a PELL grant. There are very few people in this country get educated without some assistance. Even if you get loans, many of them are subsidized by the government during the perios that you're in school. In the state of Georgia, if you meet minimum grade requirements and go to a a school in state, you are automatically eligible for and GRANTED a scholarship, regardless of income. You get a full ride of you go to a public institution, and a partial ( but helpful) one for a private institution.

 

[Shimmer]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavenLeiBlu Not only that, I'm very sure that if he applied for financial aid and met the income requirements, he ALSO received at the very least, a PELL grant. There are very few people in this country get educated without some assistance. Even if you get loans, many of them are subsidized by the government during the perios that you're in school. In the state of Georgia, if you meet minimum grade requirements and go to a a school in state, you are automatically eligible for and GRANTED a scholarship, regardless of income. You get a full ride of you go to a public institution, and a partial ( but helpful) one for a private institution.

And it's awesome that that is a state's power.
But it shouldn't be a federal power. If it were on a federal scale it would be misappropriated, mismanaged, and misdistributed. :/

 

[HeavenLeiBlu]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer And it's awesome that that is a state's power. But it shouldn't be a federal power. If it were on a federal scale it would be misappropriated, mismanaged, and misdistributed. :/

Perhaps, but please explain how? I'm of the belief that that sorts of thing depends on the employees charged with handling those programs. Mishandling happens on state and local levels, Or not. How does/would charging the federal gov't with the task change that? I'm not being snarky, just asking.

 

[Shimmer]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavenLeiBlu Perhaps, but please explain how? I'm of the belief that that sorts of thing depends on the employees charged with handling those programs. Mishandling happens on state and local levels, Or not. How does/would charging the federal gov't with the task change that? I'm not being snarky, just asking.

It's the same premise as "Too many cooks spoil the stew."
When the federal government has the responsibility to handle this type of program, it increases the bureaucratic nonsense one must go through to get the approval for the loans.
Policies and procedures have to be implemented, programs to make sure one state doesn't receive more money than another state, or perhaps it does, based on income etc.
I've dealt with the fed govt as a machine and personally experienced how at a level that large, the machine starts failing. Allowing the states to handle these types of programs would go a long way, I think, in keeping them running smoothly.
Having dealt with that, I can't see any way that having the federal government in control of those programs would be a positive situation.

 

[purrtykitty]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer It's the same premise as "Too many cooks spoil the stew." When the federal government has the responsibility to handle this type of program, it increases the bureaucratic nonsense one must go through to get the approval for the loans.

Such as requiring a student's parent's financial information when applying for financial aid. I count my lucky stars that my parents didn't make what ever that magic cut-off number is because without financial aid, there's no way I could have afforded to go to college. Unless the parents are the ones taking out the loans, I see no reason why that information is needed. I took out the loans, I signed for them on my own, and now I am solely responsible for paying them back.


Quote:

Policies and procedures have to be implemented, programs to make sure one state doesn't receive more money than another state, or perhaps it does, based on income etc. I've dealt with the fed govt as a machine and personally experienced how at a level that large, the machine starts failing. Allowing the states to handle these types of programs would go a long way, I think, in keeping them running smoothly. Having dealt with that, I can't see any way that having the federal government in control of those programs would be a positive situation.

ITA, considering college institutions are wholly monitored on the state level. Same reason I believe regulation of elementary and secondary education should pretty much be left to the states.

 

[SparklingWaves]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

The other thing that ticks me off...Obama made a statement (to a group of young people) that we should pay for college for other people.


Other impoverished countries are taking this statement to mean educational assistance in their country, too.

 

[FattyCatty]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

I must admit, I've been looking at the election from the view of "Who is the lesser of two evils."

I keep trying to stay on top of the issues and new arguments people make for/against them and its quite difficult. When it gets really overwhelming, it's not like I feel either major candidate is more in line with my values that others, but more like, if something happens to Senator McCain, we'll have Ms. Palin in the hot seat... As morbid as it is to say, Senator Obama will probably have more attempts on his life too...shoot and I was trying to lighten the mood on this thread, HA HA HAA I'll just have this happy dancing smiley as a "unicorn chaser".

 

[darkwater_soul]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Honestly, I am going with the candidate whom I can most align my personal values with - because they will more than likely not enact much, if any, of thier platforms into action. Moreso, our president will be an orator to out nation, bring up ideas to put into legislation, elect a Cabinet of advisors to help with these ideas, and be able to talk with world leaders. There are parts of McCain's and parts of Obama's platforms I like, and more than likely, seeing as our H of R and Senate have members of all parties, these different ideas will be line-vetoed and such until acceptable legislation is reached. I am personally voting for Obama, because his campaign has been the easiest for me to understand, the clearest, and I believe he can inspire the nation to change. He will be able to speak well to us, as a conglomerate nation, and he will serve as a fantastic mouthpiece for America. I also believe that the best of his ideas will work for us now, and that his advisors will advise him to change the ideas that won't work as well. Obama seems to roll with the punches, as McCain hasn't demonstrated that ability so much, however, I do hope that Obama will ask McCain to head up different foreign policy and miltary committees, as I think McCain has a lot of wise years and advice to help out this country. Like Obama's tax plan, more than likely Congress will keep some of Bush's tax cuts, and factor in some of Obama's tax measures, with the exception of the large company tax rate (of 35%), although, I do like Obama's ideas for tax exceptions for hiring more fulltime employees and keeping R&D in the US, and etc. You just have to know that most of the time, these platforms will never bear fruit, because you have to have majority support for that to happen.

 

[reesesilverstar]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

I honestly wish the other parties had a louder voice, and were allowed into the debates. I also hate the fact that having the most money determines how well you do... I'm going to follow these little voices over the next 4 years, but for now, I'll go with the less scary, less ideological, and more compassionate of the 2 loudest.

I don't think I have to come right out and say it...

 

[AdlersMommy22]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_cinday Just to let you know, you are currently paying for young adults to go to college through federal (pell grant) and state grants. You probably paid for my college education too because I was a recipient of those grants and without them i would have never been able to attend and graduate and eventually become a contributing member of society. For that I thank everyone who has contributed to my college education. And just because your son received scholarships for writing essays doesnt mean all the other kids were "too lazy or busy partying."

Yeah absolutley... when I graduated from H.S. I had a 3.89 GPA, a 32 on my ACT, was National Honors Society, and had taken a ton of advanced classes...and I didnt get ANY kind of scholorship or financial assistance... I must have applied for over 30 scholorships and got nothing, and got NO help from the college (Illinois State)...

As soon as I got pregnant and had a child they were all about giving me Fed and State Pell grants... which is GREAT... but I still have over $40,000 worth of student loans I have to pay for when i was RESPONSIBLE and worked my ass off in high school. I had to work 3 jobs as well when I was @ ISU before I got pregnant and now I have to work 2 jobs AND intern for college credit.

The whole system pisses me off. Yeah great, Im getting help now--- and I really appreciate it. But it would have been nice to have been "rewarded" for the hard work and effort I put into getting into a good college in high school. Ugh..

Not to mention i STILL have a shit ton of student loans to pay off...

Ps. Im a Republican for Obama.

 

[tricky]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

This is a good article about Taxes:

Tax plan face off: Obama vs. McCain| Whoever wins, you'll probably pay less

Whose tax plan is better for you? Obama vs. McCain :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Barack Obama

I found this particularly interesting:
"The precise cost depends on whether you assume the current tax breaks would be renewed or would expire.

Assuming they would have been renewed anyway, Obama's plan would bring in an additional $700 billion in taxes over the next 10 years, while McCain's would cost the Treasury $600 billion. Assuming legislators would have let the tax breaks expire, Obama's plan would cost the U.S. Treasury $2.7 trillion and McCain's $3.7 trillion."

I'm voting for Obama. For many other reasons than taxes (however I will benefit from his tax plan). I side with him moreso than McCain on his views about the war in Iraq, abortion, gay marriage, oil & energy, and seperation of church and state. I personally feel that the war in Iraq is our #1 problem in the US right now, followed by the economy. So I'm looking at a lot of issues right now that I feel are important. Also, McCain is an old man with a lot of health problems and the idea of Palin being our president is absolutely terrifying to me.

 

[BohemianSheila]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 Yeah absolutley... when I graduated from H.S. I had a 3.89 GPA, a 32 on my ACT, was National Honors Society, and had taken a ton of advanced classes...and I didnt get ANY kind of scholorship or financial assistance... I must have applied for over 30 scholorships and got nothing, and got NO help from the college (Illinois State)... As soon as I got pregnant and had a child they were all about giving me Fed and State Pell grants... which is GREAT... but I still have over $40,000 worth of student loans I have to pay for when i was RESPONSIBLE and worked my ass off in high school. I had to work 3 jobs as well when I was @ ISU before I got pregnant and now I have to work 2 jobs AND intern for college credit. The whole system pisses me off. Yeah great, Im getting help now--- and I really appreciate it. But it would have been nice to have been "rewarded" for the hard work and effort I put into getting into a good college in high school. Ugh.. Not to mention i STILL have a shit ton of student loans to pay off... Ps. Im a Republican for Obama.

So am I hearing that the best way to pay for college is to be a single mom?

I'm totally kidding - I don't want people to think that was a serious statement.


I'm completely for not-Obama. There is nothing that terrifies me more than big government and my sense is that it would only become more regulated and cumbersome with Obama at the helm. Could it happen with McCain, absolutely. But it will definitely happen with Obama. That is probably my most important issue when looking at a candidate.

Second, I don't believe it's the government's job to handle all the social programs. Honestly if people want really radical change, they need to wake up the Christian churches. If the churches took on their responsibilites, then we wouldn't have to worry about things like Social Security, Welfare, etc. I'm not saying you have to be a Christian to benefit from these things - Christians aren't/shouldn't be about catering to only Christians, not real Christians anyways.

Honestly I wish there was another party that I could really get behind.

 

[TISH1124]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll


Second, I don't believe it's the government's job to handle all the social programs. Honestly if people want really radical change, they need to wake up the Christian churches. If the churches took on their responsibilites, then we wouldn't have to worry about things like Social Security, Welfare, etc.

WHAT????

I am still trying to figure out exactly how and why it's the Church's responsibility to make radical changes with welfare and social security...when these agencies are run by the government???? Now I know that TD Jakes has a lot of power ...But come on...that is the craziest thing I have ever heard in my life!!!

The Church has a responsibility to encourage its members to make spiritual progress, and to show their faith in GOD by their behavior, both through their ethics and their good works.

My Church and every other church I have attended taught me about the word of God .. Not about Welfare and Social Security...What qualifies a Pastor/Minister to teach about Government funded facilities??? Why should churchs have to bear the burden of radical government changes??? If this is the case..All Ministers should be running for President!!!
Not to mention in a great deal of the churches there is more corruption going on than there is in GOVERNMENT!!

 

[aleksis210]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Okay I was originally undecided, but I'm now putting my money on McCain..quite literally...Obama Doesn't want off-shore drilling and my boyfriend is going to school to be a petroleum engineer...that about sums it up. There are other reasons as well, I'm quite religious and while Palin seems to be a little bit of a radical she does support most of my views when it comes to abortion/gay marriage and the likes of that. I don't agree with taxing 'rich' people more because they were fortunate enough to be..well...fortunate. The whole idea of Socialism just reminds me of my homeland..Russia...and gives me the creeps. What works for them, while it's not exactly the same, cannot and will not work for America. The last and most disturbing thing, that very ironically no one seems to want to talk about is the fact that Obama strikes me as a closet racist, and I will NEVER vote for someone that could hold so much power and has the possiblity to be racially biased.

 

[BohemianSheila]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by TISH1127 WHAT???? I am still trying to figure out exactly how and why it's the Church's responsibility to make radical changes with welfare and social security...when these agencies are run by the government???? Now I know that TD Jakes has a lot of power ...But come on...that is the craziest thing I have ever heard in my life!!! The Church has a responsibility to encourage its members to make spiritual progress, and to show their faith in GOD by their behavior, both through their ethics and their good works. My Church and every other church I have attended taught me about the word of God .. Not about Welfare and Social Security...What qualifies a Pastor/Minister to teach about Government funded facilities??? Why should churchs have to bear the burden of radical government changes??? If this is the case..All Ministers should be running for President!!! Not to mention in a great deal of the churches there is more corruption going on than there is in GOVERNMENT!!

Real Christianity states that we take care of widows and orphans. Real Christianity isn't about the self-interest of me and my relationship with God. God inspires us to be involved in our communities and take care of people. If we are taking care of people the way that God calls us to love and care for people - GOVERNMENT ISN'T NECESSARY TO REGULATE THESE THINGS. It becomes a moot point. Why regulate something that isn't an issue.

You're talking about making a radical change in government - I'm talking about making a radical change in being. I'm talking about radically changing the way we think about caring for people. I'm also saying that if a person claims to be a Christian, the Bible supports what I just stated. The New Testament isn't about sitting around and talking about God, it's filled with people in action taking care of others in the name of God - ie, those with physical afflications (disability), the elderly (social security), the orphans (social services), & the widows (I would also add single mothers in this).

 

[aleksis210]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 Yeah absolutley... when I graduated from H.S. I had a 3.89 GPA, a 32 on my ACT, was National Honors Society, and had taken a ton of advanced classes...and I didnt get ANY kind of scholorship or financial assistance... I must have applied for over 30 scholorships and got nothing, and got NO help from the college (Illinois State)... As soon as I got pregnant and had a child they were all about giving me Fed and State Pell grants... which is GREAT... but I still have over $40,000 worth of student loans I have to pay for when i was RESPONSIBLE and worked my ass off in high school. I had to work 3 jobs as well when I was @ ISU before I got pregnant and now I have to work 2 jobs AND intern for college credit. The whole system pisses me off. Yeah great, Im getting help now--- and I really appreciate it. But it would have been nice to have been "rewarded" for the hard work and effort I put into getting into a good college in high school. Ugh.. Not to mention i STILL have a shit ton of student loans to pay off... Ps. Im a Republican for Obama.

Well then you're not a republican you're a democrat. or a hypocrite. edit: no offense, just thought I'd point it out...

 

[TISH1124]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by aleksis210 Well then you're not a republican you're a democrat. or a hypocrite. edit: no offense, just thought I'd point it out...

She is not a hypocrite...Because you are not born a Republican or a Democrat...It's a choice you choose as an adult registered voter...and she is making a choice to choose who she votes for just like you made the choice to change or be undecided on who you wanted to vote for...
This name calling is so uncalled for..really! Be smarter and better than this, really!

P.S. News Flash: Just because you are not a Republican that does not make you a Democrat...

 

[TISH1124]

Re: 2008 Presisdential election - poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohemianSheila Real Christianity states that we take care of widows and orphans. Real Christianity isn't about the self-interest of me and my relationship with God. God inspires us to be involved in our communities and take care of people. If we are taking care of people the way that God calls us to love and care for people - GOVERNMENT ISN'T NECESSARY TO REGULATE THESE THINGS. It becomes a moot point. Why regulate something that isn't an issue. You're talking about making a radical change in government - I'm talking about making a radical change in being. I'm talking about radically changing the way we think about caring for people. I'm also saying that if a person claims to be a Christian, the Bible supports what I just stated. The New Testament isn't about sitting around and talking about God, it's filled with people in action taking care of others in the name of God - ie, those with physical afflications (disability), the elderly (social security), the orphans (social services), & the widows (I would also add single mothers in this).

So you assume that all the world are Christians and everyone believes in GOD?