I Can't Believe Israel Bombed Gaza

[nunu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC_Whore I'll assume you meant to say independence. I can completely appreciate that. It's just that they made a foolish choice in this instance as to how they went about acheving that goal. Their choice to attack Israel sent them backwards in this instance. It was avoidable.

Oops sorry, yes i did mean independance

 

[MAC_Whore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunu I'm sorry if this comes off rude that is not my intention, but are you serious?? In the news their was footage of Israeli soldiers showing a reporter and explaining to him that in this area there are a few schools that WE asked the civilians to stay in to be safe while we fight Gaza. They chose to bomb it a couple hours later. But that's nothing new, hey? I was flipping through the CNN, BBC and a couple of arabic channels, i never got this media biased thing ever but i got it yesterday when i saw what kind of picture the CNN and BBC are portraying to their public. I think the protests that are happening all over the world explains the matter clearly. ....

This isn't meant to be rude, but clearly I wasn't joking, so yes, I was serious.

So there is bias, but only on CNN and BBC? Not the arabic channels? Is it not just a different kind of bias? ALL sources are biased.

If we are saying there is bias in the media, how do you know the facts/reporting behind the bombing of the school did indeed play out that way? Whether it was BBC or CNN or an arabic channel.

Is it only bias when it doesn't fit one's arguement?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunu ...How can you (and this is not directed to you) explain 800 civilians dying in 15 days?? Not to mention quarter of that are children.

How can you (and this is not directed to you) explain why Palestine/hamas would choose to start this when they KNEW Palestinian people would obviously suffer. They know what the IDF is capable of.

Since we keep coming back to the theme of children dying and schools being attacked, how do you all feel about hamas/Palestine sending suicide bombers into Israel to explode themselves and kill innocent Israelis (including children)?

 

[MAC_Whore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunu Oops sorry, yes i did mean independance

No worries.

 

[caffn8me]

OK, I'm going to tell you a story. A true one. Here in the UK, we've had terrorism for longer than the modern state of Israel has existed.

We've had thousands of innocent civilians, soldiers and police officers killed and maimed over the years (Statistics for the most recent troubles).

Between 2005 and the start of the current campaign in the Gaza strip, the Hamas (terrorist) rockets fired from Gaza killed nine Israelis. Not even double figures (Source).

That's nine too many but it's difficult to justify a response that has killed hundreds of civilians including women and children as being proportionate.

At the moment the ratio of Palestinian casualties to Israeli casualties is probably a hundred to one (I'm just looking at casualties caused by Hamas rockets compared to the casualties caused by Israel's response specifically to Hamas rockets).

Imagine what Northern Ireland would be like now if the British Army had gone in as heavily every time a civilian, soldier or police officer was killed by the IRA. There would still be no peace.

As it happens, we now have a negotiated political settlement which has effectively put an end to the terrorism which blighted not only Northern Ireland but also many of Britian's towns and cities.

The Palestinians have a genuine grievance - they used to have a homeland but the artificial creation of the modern state of Israel by the United Nations effectively destroyed the country of Palestine in 1948.

This isn't ancient history, for many this is living memory. Being deprived of a homeland must hurt and the Palestinians have had a pretty raw deal.

The answer would be for Israel to withdraw from all the territories it occupies contrary to UN mandate (including parts of Jerusalem and the West Bank) and for the Palestinians to recognize the state of Israel.

A negotiated settlement is the only way to end the violence between Israel and its neighbours but I am not sure either side wants that.

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC_Whore Their choice to attack Israel sent them backwards in this instance. It was avoidable.

exactly what i mean when i say that hamas fucked up. there was a much better way to go about this, and hamas failed to use exhaust every other option before resorting to violence...that's almost always a terrible idea.

 

[MAC_Whore]

Thanks, caffn8me, nunu and Stargazer. You have given good food for thought. I realize that this is a very passionate subject and more personal to some than it will ever be to me as I am not directly involved.

We all have our opinions and they may differ, but ultimately we have the same ideal of peace. I appreciate being able to discuss the topic with you ladies.

 

[nunu]

This whole Palestinian, Israeli situation breaks my heart as i don't see ANY form of peace happening soon and no matter how many truce's both goverments accept to, one of them would break this truce.

The media is biased, i know as a middle eastern that arabic channels would portray what is really going on there because Palestine is part of the Middle Eastern Union.
If what i hear or read in the news are incorrect then there are heart breaking pictures to prove it.

I just wanted to put my point of view forward

 

[MAC_Whore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunu This whole Palestinian, Israeli situation breaks my heart as i don't see ANY form of peace happening soon and no matter how many truce's both goverments accept to, one of them would break this truce. The media is biased, i know as a middle eastern that arabic channels would portray what is really going on there because Palestine is part of the Middle Eastern Union. If what i hear or read in the news are incorrect then there are heart breaking pictures to prove it. I just wanted to put my point of view forward

I hear you.

 

[Shoegal-fr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC_Whore Thanks, caffn8me, nunu and Stargazer. You have given good food for thought. I realize that this is a very passionate subject and more personal to some than it will ever be to me as I am not directly involved. We all have our opinions and they may differ, but ultimately we have the same ideal of peace. I appreciate being able to discuss the topic with you ladies.

No offense, but i'm just wondering how this subject could be more personal than it is to you as you clearly put Israel's army motto right under your username here...?

 

[MAC_Whore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoegal-fr No offense, but i'm just wondering how this subject could be more personal than it is to you as you clearly put Israel's army motto right under your username here...?

No offense, but mind your own business. I'm not asking about your personal situation, so return the favour. Do you want me to say I am an Israeli or Jewish? Sorry to disappoint you. I'm not.

 

[Shoegal-fr]

I really didn't meant you to take it that badly... and at least i didn't even used an insulting or offensive tone.
I was just intrigued, as many other readers are right now, that a mod writes that under her username and in a meanwhile, talks with so much passion in such a thread.
I was just trying to understand, that's it.
i didn't consider it to be personal and didn't mind asking about it because it's written right there, where everybody could read it and knows about it.


Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC_Whore No offense, but mind your own business. I'm not asking about your personal situation, so return the favour. Do you want me to say I am an Israeli or Jewish? Sorry to disappoint you. I'm not.

 

[nunu]

Ok, i have researched on who really started all this, surprise surprise it was Israel.

http://www.sfetcu.com/content/Israel...-December-2008

There was meant to be a 6 months truce between both sides, no killing, no arresting, no searching civiliasns on the way to oher cities in Palestine, basically both should mind their own business.

It was going on smoothly untill unsuprisingly Israel broke this truce by arresting or killing Palestinians throught the corse of this so called 6 month truce. So naturally Hammas would fight back because it's not fair a deal is a deal. Yes they are suffering now but Israel have started this, which makes me wonder, do they really want peace or bloodshed?

 

[MAC_Whore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoegal-fr I really didn't meant you to take it that badly... and at least i didn't even used an insulting or offensive tone. I was just intrigued, as many other readers are right now, that a mod writes that under her username and in a meanwhile, talks with so much passion in such a thread. I was just trying to understand, that's it. i didn't consider it to be personal and didn't mind asking about it because it's written right there, where everybody could read it and knows about it.

You were asking about my personal situation:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoegal-fr No offense, but i'm just wondering how this subject could be more personal than it is to you as you clearly put Israel's army motto right under your username here...?

So I replied, that I don't want to know about your personal business and I don't want to share mine with you. Full stop. If you were just asking about the verbiage in my thread, there was no need, as it is listed right there. There is nothing else to ask. What you were curious about was how it had a personal meaning.

As far as the "many intrigued readers" (apparently you've done a survey of Specktra's members) wondering about why I am writing with such passion....

This has been said time and time again. We are mods, but we are also human beings with feelings and views on different topics. Why can I not speak passionately about a subject, but you can?

If you are worried about impartiality with the TOS, we are expected to follow the same rules you are. If we don't, we hear about it. There are several mods of which each are assinged a particular section. Checks and balances.

 

[Shoegal-fr]

You're twisting my words, hence i'm not gonna discuss with you.
Many readers, i was even surprised to receive PMs from people i have never talked to before, they said that to me, i have no time for a survey. Final point.

 

[MAC_Whore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoegal-fr You're twisting my words, hence i'm not gonna discuss with you. Many readers, i was even surprised to receive PMs from people i have never talked to before, they said that to me, i have no time for a survey. Final point.

I'm not twisting them, I am making sense of them and addressing your points. That is one of the points of a discussion.

It is no surprise that some people share your point of view and some people share mine. The forum and PMs are a great way to connect with people.

Since you're "not gonna" discuss it with me anymore, I'll say my au revoirs to you.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunu Ok, i have researched on who really started all this, surprise surprise it was Israel. The Israel–Gaza conflict started in December 2008 | Nicolae Sfetcu There was meant to be a 6 months truce between both sides, no killing, no arresting, no searching civiliasns on the way to oher cities in Palestine, basically both should mind their own business. It was going on smoothly untill unsuprisingly Israel broke this truce by arresting or killing Palestinians throught the corse of this so called 6 month truce. So naturally Hammas would fight back because it's not fair a deal is a deal. Yes they are suffering now but Israel have started this, which makes me wonder, do they really want peace or bloodshed?

Do you mean the Israelis?

If so, I think many of them would like to live peacefully. However, I think a very large faction believe they deserve whatever land they decide to take and damn whoever happens to live there and damn the consequences to anyone else.

And you are 100% correct that the Hamas rockets were a response to an early December Israeli violation of the truce. Unsurprising, to me at least. The rest of the world gets a much more balanced reporting of the events. Not many US media outlets reported that incursion or the very relevant fact that IT broke the truce.

There are two different sets of rules being played by, partly because the US allows it.




Oh, and big thanks to caffn8me for the reminder about the Irish situation. Very comparable and something else that I've actually experienced firsthand. And again, something else influenced by the US, though in that situation, not intentionally, I think. When Bill Clinton let Gerry Adams into the US, there was a renewed series of attacks by the IRA because Adams was able to fundraise from Irish Catholics here in the US. That money was funneled directly to the IRA and other paramilitary organizations.

 

[nunu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Stargazer* Do you mean the Israelis? If so, I think many of them would like to live peacefully. However, I think a very large faction believe they deserve whatever land they decide to take and damn whoever happens to live there and damn the consequences to anyone else. And you are 100% correct that the Hamas rockets were a response to an early December Israeli violation of the truce. Unsurprising, to me at least. The rest of the world gets a much more balanced reporting of the events. Not many US media outlets reported that incursion or the very relevant fact that IT broke the truce. There are two different sets of rules being played by, partly because the US allows it. Oh, and big thanks to caffn8me for the reminder about the Irish situation. Very comparable and something else that I've actually experienced firsthand. And again, something else influenced by the US, though in that situation, not intentionally, I think. When Bill Clinton let Gerry Adams into the US, there was a renewed series of attacks by the IRA because Adams was able to fundraise from Irish Catholics here in the US. That money was funneled directly to the IRA and other paramilitary organizations.

Yes i do mean the Israelis. I also do agree with you, they would take whatever they want by force and even by vacating that area and calling it theirs.

As i have said earlier, i was surprised that the media in the US forgot to mention that little detail, now i nderstand why so many people think Hammas is wrong when in fact they were just responding to what Israel is doing.
I don't think Hammas did anything wrong by firing at Israel, they were trying to make their voice heard because Israel did break the deal. Where they expecting the Palestinians to shut up and suck it up?? No way, they have broken the truce. If you break a deal then you deserve what happens to you.

But ofcourse the Palestinians are the ones who are suffering, 800 causalties in 15 days with 135 killed in just one day is horrendous. I don't know why people keep hating on Hammas and the Palestinian government or even trying to think about it from their point of view, all they are doing is fighting back.

 

[MAC_Whore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunu ..... I don't know why people keep hating on Hammas and the Palestinian government or even trying to think about it from their point of view, all they are doing is fighting back.

Both sides are fighting back and trying to establish their homes. We take certain actions and statments on both sides as we choose. Everything is relative. We all relate to different elements.

 

[Juneplum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoegal-fr I was just intrigued, as many other readers are right now, that a mod writes that under her username and in a meanwhile, talks with so much passion in such a thread.

Let me point out that per the Specktra TOS:

"We don’t censor messages based on the opinions expressed within posts, but we will enforce TOS & Forum Guidelines outlined both here and in their respective forums." applies to all Specktra staff (mods, advisors and admins) too.

The fact that the she is a mod has NOTHING to do with what she's allowed to say, and we certainly are not going to censor her from speaking her mind just because of her forum status.

 

[Shoegal-fr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juneplum Let me point out that per the Specktra TOS: "We don’t censor messages based on the opinions expressed within posts, but we will enforce TOS & Forum Guidelines outlined both here and in their respective forums." applies to all Specktra staff (mods, advisors and admins) too. The fact the she is a mod has NOTHING to do with what she's allowed to say, and we certainly are not going to censor her from speaking her mind just because of her forum status.

And i totally agree with, i have never said that she's not allowed to express her opinions. In fact, my original post, was asking about how it could be more personal, not how it is personal to her. Because i find that funny the concept of levels of passion or reason, if something is personal, then you're passionate. Point. You could not be less passionate, or 1/4 passionate and 3/4 reasonnable... and so on...

I have not asked her about her personal views, because anyways, she expressed hers in the thread, hence it's no more private, hence i just wanted to pointed out that what she has written under her username, related to what she has written in the thread, shows that she is passionated enough, hence, again, my older post: how it could be more personal??

That's it, i don't care what religion or what nationality, or what origin she is, i just wanted to understand, what she previously said that this would be "more personal to some than it will ever be to me", it didn't seem logical. Point.

I have nothing against Mac_Whore. And i do respect the TOS as well.

I wasn't making an attack or even questionning a personal belief, i was just wondering what she meant to say. Point.