It's not a hate crime because she's white, and it's Halloween "art".

[vocaltest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapis I think it's not something that is usual in our generation, I know that when I was little on Guy Fawkes Guy Fawkes Night - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia There were effigies burnt but I'm only 30 and I'm pretty sure my last memory of it was my first year in primary school

Off topic but Guy Fawkes effigies are still burnt. I live near the Cinque Ports where bonfire night is a huge deal, and they have Bonfire Societies. Guy Fawke is burnt on the bonfire every year in their firework displays.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spectrolite And of course the reaction would be very different if it were an Obama effigy hanging on its on. But surely it is obvious why that would be case? There is a history of racially motivated lynching violence against African Americans in America and a lynched effigy of Obama would automatically make people think of that. Unfortunately that's just the way things are because of the way history happend. Honestly I think that this is just another one of those bitter "Race Threads" that never goes forward - just around and around.

But that's the problem right there.
People would automatically assume it was racially motivated because Obama is black.
Automatically.
The person who created the scene would be labeled as a white supremacist and a racist.
Automatically.
And the defense of "It's art! ART!!" would automatically be dismissed because Obama's black, even if the person had the same intentions for the Obama display as they obviously have for the Palin display, they would immediately be branded a racist.
That's the problem.
Because of skin color something is being excused, it's being excused and played off as 'art' and 'in the halloween spirit' because McCain and Palin are not black.

 

[florabundance]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer But that's the problem right there. People would automatically assume it was racially motivated because Obama is black. Automatically. The person who created the scene would be labeled as a white supremacist and a racist. Automatically. And the defense of "It's art! ART!!" would automatically be dismissed because Obama's black, even if the person had the same intentions for the Obama display as they obviously have for the Palin display, they would immediately be branded a racist. That's the problem. Because of skin color something is being excused, it's being excused and played off as 'art' and 'in the halloween spirit' because McCain and Palin are not black.

But one could argue that that is a consequence of history as opposed to being a double standard. Would you rather that the fact that Obama is black be entirely omitted from all political discussion, because that is an unrealistic expectation.
Or does it irk you that people, and a substantial amount of media outlets, often trivialise the politics of Republicans and those who represent them?

This effigy is arguably freedom of speech (or action). And as we've seen, some are granted that privelege of being able to say or adhere to nutty shit with no question or consequence (according to your argument, the perpetrators of this effigy), and others simply aren't.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by florabundance But one could argue that that is a consequence of history as opposed to being a double standard. Would you rather that the fact that Obama is black be entirely omitted from all political discussion, because that is an unrealistic expectation. Or does it irk you that people, and a substantial amount of media outlets, often trivialise the politics of Republicans and those who represent them?

Honestly, yes, I would. Him being black has absolutely nothing to do with his ability to rationalize as a person. It has nothing to do with his ability to relate to foreign leaders.
I do find the trivialization irksome, but it's expected given the person holding office today. Lame duck doesn't begin to describe his presidency.

Quote:

This effigy is arguably freedom of speech (or action). And as we've seen, some are granted that privelege of being able to say or adhere to nutty shit with no question or consequence (according to your argument, the perpetrators of this effigy), and others simply aren't.

Yes. It is definitely freedom of speech.
That doesn't mean I like the double standard that gets applied. :/

 

[couturesista]

I hope everyone that has posted in this thread takes all of this PASSION and FRUSTRATION to the POLLS on NOV.4!
On a different note, I think alot of you ladies most definitely missed your calling, i.e. lawyers, politicans, public officials. All of you make valid arguments and its very interesting to read all of your POV's.

 

[MACLovin]

If anyone cares, it was a white, gay man who put the display up according to news reports. Take it for what you will.

 

[sharkbytes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MACLovin If anyone cares, it was a white, gay man who put the display up according to news reports. Take it for what you will.

Honestly, it doesn't matter to me who put up the display (I realize how that may sound, and I'm not criticizing you for giving us the info, I know a lot of people were curious

) It just bothers me that anyone would take it upon themselves to do something that dumb and offensive. And that I had to see it on the news this morning where a newscaster had the nerve to let out a chuckle, as if it's just hilarious to promote that sort of thing. *sigh* Halloween's my fave holiday, I hate when people use it to excuse wrongdoing or to pervert it to push some sort of agenda.

 

[xxManBeaterxx]

I just saw this on CNN a few minutes ago. The guy also had a john mccain dummy in his chemney with make-shift flames. He also had tons of other decorations as well. I'm not saying because of all the other decorations its okay to do it, but its one of the main reasons the police didn't charge him with anything, because he had many other decorations and the police viewed it merely as "decorations"(eh something like that, i heard from the journalist on CNN).

There was also a ghost of barak obama in another persons yard, hanging on a tree by a noose. The police asked the man to take down the obama ghost, and the owner agreed. Not sure if he was charged with something or not. They also interviewed this lady, and she said her 5 year old grandson saw it, and she had to explain to him about hate crimes at 5 years old.

I'm sure if it wasn't Halloween this wouldn't have happened, but even if the owners saw it as a harmless joke, it is a hate crime, end of story.

 

[ShugAvery2001]

here's how webster defines a "hate crime"

now i guess it's fine for people to makeup their own definitions and use the term out of context **which happens all the time, which in turn leads to miscommunication**
but below is how the term SHOULD be applied

hate - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
hate crime

One entry found.




Main Entry: hate crime Function:noun Date:1984 : any of various crimes (as assault or defacement of property) when motivated by hostility to the victim as a member of a group (as one based on color, creed, gender, or sexual orientation)

 

[ShugAvery2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer But that's the problem right there. People would automatically assume it was racially motivated because Obama is black. Automatically. The person who created the scene would be labeled as a white supremacist and a racist. Automatically. And the defense of "It's art! ART!!" would automatically be dismissed because Obama's black, even if the person had the same intentions for the Obama display as they obviously have for the Palin display, they would immediately be branded a racist. That's the problem. Because of skin color something is being excused, it's being excused and played off as 'art' and 'in the halloween spirit' because McCain and Palin are not black.

Shimmer, if there were no such thing as CONTEXT.... your argument would be totally legitimate. It's very simplistic to imply that the perceptions of intent in cases like these are based purely on 'the color of a persons skin' as opposed to the context of this countries underlying racial issues. I mean to get some perspective do you ever discuss these things with your black friends at home? I mean outside of the people you encounter on the internet? Believe me .. if it were a gay white male running for president and all of a sudden hanging effigies of them dressed as Liberace or something started popping up, people would make assumptions about intent. It's really common sense.

 

[rbella]

Honestly, I think all "crimes" are motivated by "hate". In this instance, I believe the "hate" was toward her political stance. I don't personally feel that this was racially motivated.

I think a racially provoked "hate crime", in my opinion, is typically one that is committed by someone of the opposite race and done simply because of the person's skin color. No other reason.

I see where you are trying to go with the fact that it's "hypocritical" that people aren't screaming that her color had something to do with it, but I think perhaps a different example would have been more influential. JMO.

I hope we can all get along after this election. I know I'm sick of it.

 

[ClaireAvril]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavenLeiBlu I actually am quite accustomed to seeing this around Halloween, and most people don't find it disturbing, because the "victim" seems to be an pretty ambiguous male, and it's understood that it's part of the "fright". I've seen it in several regions that I've lived in this country, and it only seems to be problematic when it happens outside the confines of this holiday. Given the racial tensions of where I currently live (the South), I see why it upsets people outside of All Hallow's Eve.

Hmmm.. I've seen skeletons like that... but not a dummy of someone in plain clothes.

 

[SuSana]

This morning on the news they said that the Secret Service is looking into it and will possibly be charging him with a hate crime. If that's the case, shouldn't they be looking into the other incidents that have been mentioned in this thread? How can one person be asked to take it down and that be the end of it, but another be possibly charged?

Not to trivialize the situation because I don't agree with it at all, how would someone know it was supposed to be Sarah Palin? It could just be a random body Halloween decoration.

 

[florabundance]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbella I hope we can all get along after this election. I know I'm sick of it.

I agree, but in many ways it's almost forced people to discuss issues that you would never really consider taboo in 2008.

 

[PMBG83]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbella I hope we can all get along after this election. I know I'm sick of it.

Im sure things will return to a normalcy of sorts. I mean the whole reason or thing that brought us all together from different lands seas time zones cultures races beliefs religions backgrounds skin color etc etc etc was makeup for goodness sakes. I mean above all else the most talked about or associated differences(the ones that were are and always will be talked about) among everyone here is usually:

Who is the biggest makeup freak
Check out my little makeup house I made
Are you going to pickup that new brush set
Oh wow I want to define my outer v just like that
My rent is due but oh well that new collection looks fierce

So yeah Im pretty sure the makeup threads will start moving weight once this HISTORICAL event is over. By the looks of this site makeup fanatics seem to multiply daily.

 

[lafemmenoir]

Sometimes I think some people lookfor issues regarding race to make points about issues they are struggling with eternally. I am so glad someone included this happened in a predominately white gay area of Los Angeles, aka We-Ho. I get called names all day long, probably by some of you on this forum. I don't think let it get to me any more because I have been treated worse by some in my own race. Assuming all of any minority are >>>>here<<<< could not be a fallacy anymore than a lot of the rubbish in this thread. Why do some people love to beat a dead horse about "if a minority...?" as if it can fix anything. Write your statesmen, we keep goin on about issues re: race and we won't agree without walking in the others shoes. Once again, I do think someone was a victim of a hate crime approx 2days ago being dragged from a vehicle. I'm sure a white person has had something heinous happen as well, but talk to the media about equal representation rather than get mad at the other side for something they don't control. As far as Obama, you can look as far as Jessie Jackson and see he gets called n*gger by a man who is "supposedly" a civil rights activist for minorities. What?

 

[SparklingWaves]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuSana This morning on the news they said that the Secret Service is looking into it and will possibly be charging him with a hate crime. If that's the case, shouldn't they be looking into the other incidents that have been mentioned in this thread? How can one person be asked to take it down and that be the end of it, but another be possibly charged? Not to trivialize the situation because I don't agree with it at all, how would someone know it was supposed to be Sarah Palin? It could just be a random body Halloween decoration.

Anyone that displays a political figure symbolically being executed will and should be investigated by Secret Service. It's a huge deal.

If you don't agree with the image of the woman being lynched under the flames with the man coming out of the fireplace with a mask of Senator, John McCain, has any resemblance in any way to Governor, Sarah Palin, you can go fight for the rights of the creator of these "decorations". Remember, he did admit a lot of things. Some of them were deleted from the Internet quite promptly.

 

[ratmist]

I agree the effigy is wrong, but I don't believe it's a hate crime. But I'm someone who doesn't really care about burning flags. Hanging an effigy of Obama is just as wrong, but again, I think it falls under the category of freedom of speech. There are better ways to express oneself - namely in the voting booth - but still, I think this falls into the area of freedom of speech.

Could I just ask - is it possible that people have strongly negative and strongly positive reactions to Palin because she has a personality that comes through very clearly?

It doesn't necessarily have to be a result of her being female, white, and Republican. It could be a cumulative effect of everything she represents, which can appeal or disgust you depending on what your beliefs are. Each candidate and running mate have a massive public relations machine, which together have spent almost $1 billion trying to get a reaction out of us. Is it any wonder we are reacting?

I'm just loathe to see racism and hate in every single reaction people have to politicians. If you don't like Obama, you're not necessarily a racist. If you don't like Palin, you're not necessarily a sexist.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShugAvery2001 Shimmer, if there were no such thing as CONTEXT.... your argument would be totally legitimate. It's very simplistic to imply that the perceptions of intent in cases like these are based purely on 'the color of a persons skin' as opposed to the context of this countries underlying racial issues. I mean to get some perspective do you ever discuss these things with your black friends at home? I mean outside of the people you encounter on the internet? Believe me .. if it were a gay white male running for president and all of a sudden hanging effigies of them dressed as Liberace or something started popping up, people would make assumptions about intent. It's really common sense.

Of course.

 

[Divinity]

It's truly disappointing to see these kind of things happening representing a person's opinion of another. There's nothing Halloweeny or artistic about it. Definitely scary. How would that person feel seeing a dummy of themselves strung up in a neighbor/friend's yard?