It's not a hate crime because she's white, and it's Halloween "art".

[HeavenLeiBlu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Stargazer* But you were, in those instances, being a bitch and someone called you on it. How many people that call Sarah Palin a bitch or a cunt have had ANY personal interactions with her? Just because someone has differing political viewpoints doesn't qualify them as a derogatory term.

Look, I didn't say that it's right for anybody to just unjustifiably do so, ( emember, I was speaking in general terms, I wasn't zeroing in on her specifically, just playing DA, as it were). However, say one has interacted with her personally? Then what? They can't call their feelings how they see them? Just because you find the term offensive doesn't neccessarily make her any less of it, if it's true.

 

[HeavenLeiBlu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by franimal I really can't wait for this election to be over....

By golly, neither can I! every presidential cycle seems to draw out the ugliness and rabidness in everyone, no matter who they side with.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavenLeiBlu Look, I didn't say that it's right for anybody to just unjustifiably do so, ( emember, I was speaking in general terms, I wasn't zeroing in on her specifically, just playing DA, as it were). However, say one has interacted with her personally? Then what? They can't call their feelings how they see them? Just because you find the term offensive doesn't neccessarily make her any less of it, if it's true.

Of course they can.
Personally, I have no issue with the 'white' part of being called a 'white bitch', because I am white, and I can be a bitch.
My issue is with the hypocrisy evidenced by the person doing the name calling because had I said 'black bitch' I would have been attacked for being a racist white bitch. That's the part I have an issue with, the hypocrisy of the situation.

 

[HeavenLeiBlu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClaireAvril I've never seen a house decorated with someone hanging by a noose. I think most people consider seeing something like that very disturbing.

I actually am quite accustomed to seeing this around Halloween, and most people don't find it disturbing, because the "victim" seems to be an pretty ambiguous male, and it's understood that it's part of the "fright". I've seen it in several regions that I've lived in this country, and it only seems to be problematic when it happens outside the confines of this holiday. Given the racial tensions of where I currently live (the South), I see why it upsets people outside of All Hallow's Eve.

 

[HeavenLeiBlu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Of course they can. Personally, I have no issue with the 'white' part of being called a 'white bitch', because I am white, and I can be a bitch. My issue is with the hypocrisy evidenced by the person doing the name calling because had I said 'black bitch' I would have been attacked for being a racist white bitch. That's the part I have an issue with, the hypocrisy of the situation.

I can dig that. How about everybody just drop the extra, unnecessary desciptors and get to the the point? That way we can fight over the real issue(s) at hand. MEOW!

 

[franimal]

Quote:

You really can't compare the two of them in this situation and say they are the same. I don't see how you can argue that she is being targeted for being a white republican female. I think it is more likely a combination of things having to do with how she presents herself and her views. But until hanging can be linked to the oppression of women, republicans or white people, I don't see how you can argue that hanging someone is symbolically racist, sexist or anti-republican at all.

You just did. You just said that it would be absolutely racially motivated if it were a representation of Obama.
It's cool to hate Republicans right now. It's okay, they're fair game, and it's no problem for anyone. It's the IN thing. That's why it's mentioned, and why it's okay.

I meant that you can't argue this representation (hanging Sarah Palin) is symbolically racist (in your argument, against white people). Lynching was used to send a message to black people. It was terrorizing. The symbolic image showed what would happen if blacks tried to rebel or gain power over whites. Why do you think lynchings were very public events? For a lot of people, this image is still terrorizing. I know that it is for me.


I agree with you, that this piece of "art" is wrong and disturbing either way. But I personally don't think this demonstration was racially motivated.

Just one question, how is it "cool" to hate republicans right now? It is obvious that you feel Sarah Palin is so unfairly targeted.


As a compliment, I wonder why you aren't a lawyer? You are very good with your rebuttals.

 

[SparklingWaves]

The theme of Halloween is the scapegoat for a politically motivated charged statement with some very ugly and controversial undertones.

This man is just taunting the other side of the political camp to strike back with a vengeance with that same theme or worse.

It's just free speech and Halloween. Right? Sure - "Trick or treat", Ladies, Gentlemen, & Children of the (free) World.

 

[kimmy]

i didn't read all of this, but i just have to say i'm willing to put money on the table that says mccain and palin have both been issued death threats. they may not choose to make that stuff public, but i'm sure they've recieved them just as well as obama has.

 

[user79]

Honestly I don't get why people get so upset about this. Burning effigies or making mocking effigies of politicians is hardly something revolutionary...it may not be the most tasteful way to express one's political sentiment but I hardly see this as a racist act, more a political statement. *shrug*People will always find something to get pissed off or offended about.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by franimal Quote: You really can't compare the two of them in this situation and say they are the same. I don't see how you can argue that she is being targeted for being a white republican female. I think it is more likely a combination of things having to do with how she presents herself and her views. But until hanging can be linked to the oppression of women, republicans or white people, I don't see how you can argue that hanging someone is symbolically racist, sexist or anti-republican at all. You just did. You just said that it would be absolutely racially motivated if it were a representation of Obama. It's cool to hate Republicans right now. It's okay, they're fair game, and it's no problem for anyone. It's the IN thing. That's why it's mentioned, and why it's okay. I meant that you can't argue this representation (hanging Sarah Palin) is symbolically racist (in your argument, against white people). Lynching was used to send a message to black people. It was terrorizing. The symbolic image showed what would happen if blacks tried to rebel or gain power over whites. Why do you think lynchings were very public events? For a lot of people, this image is still terrorizing. I know that it is for me. I agree with you, that this piece of "art" is wrong and disturbing either way. But I personally don't think this demonstration was racially motivated. Just one question, how is it "cool" to hate republicans right now? It is obvious that you feel Sarah Palin is so unfairly targeted. As a compliment, I wonder why you aren't a lawyer? You are very good with your rebuttals.

lol Thanks. I've simply never pursued the career though the interest is definitely there.

I don't necessarily think she's unfairly targeted, I think the sheeple idea of "i'm not republican bcuz it's not kewl" is just apalling.
I don't think it was racially motivated, but I think that if it were an Obama effigy, racism would have been attributed to it, regardless of the motivation, and the cries of "Art!! It's art!!" wouldn't be listened to.

 

[sharkbytes]

It's a hate crime, plain and simple. It doesn't have to be on par with the horrible hate and racism of years past to qualify as a hate crime. I agree, there are varying degrees of severity here, but there does seem to be a double standard.

It shouldn't have anything to do with who you support in the election, either. But it's become a trendy fad to make fun of Sarah Palin, for anything and everything, and this person took it a little too far.

The bottom line is, a display like that is disgusting and it promotes violence against women. What's shocking to me is that there aren't more people who think this is wrong. It may have been an ill-advised prank, but that is how things escalate, and history should've taught us all by now that hate breeds hate. No matter what term you use or how you dress it up, that person depicted a woman being hanged.

 

[TDoll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Had it been an Obama like mannequin, the guy would be in jail. But it's okay. She's female. White. And Republican.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Of course they can. Personally, I have no issue with the 'white' part of being called a 'white bitch', because I am white, and I can be a bitch. My issue is with the hypocrisy evidenced by the person doing the name calling because had I said 'black bitch' I would have been attacked for being a racist white bitch. That's the part I have an issue with, the hypocrisy of the situation.

I couldn't have said it better. Could you imagine the type of uproar that would have caused?? Some people have no class...and I'm really not surprised that this was the first I've heard of this. Seems (like you said) that it seems to be "okay" or acceptable to hang a white Replublican rather than an African American. Either one is NOT okay.

Sorry, but what the hell is wrong with people these days?? What's not to understand in this situation?? Hypocrisy is the key word kids.

 

[sharkbytes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Of course they can. Personally, I have no issue with the 'white' part of being called a 'white bitch', because I am white, and I can be a bitch. My issue is with the hypocrisy evidenced by the person doing the name calling because had I said 'black bitch' I would have been attacked for being a racist white bitch. That's the part I have an issue with, the hypocrisy of the situation.

I hadn't seen this before when I posted, so I hope you guys don't mind my double posting

But I have to say I agree completely. I can't tell you how many times I've said this, only to have some idiot come back at me and say, "So what you're saying is, you want to be able to call someone a black bitch and get away with it?" UM NO. I don't think it's right either way. Calling me a white bitch, or Wonder Bread, or a cracker, isn't cool with me and it never will be.

But saying I don't like being called those names is NOT the same thing as saying that I'd like to be able to reply back in kind. I don't. I think it's crap that when people feel threatened, they automatically pull out the racial insults. It disgusts me, quite frankly. And don't even get me started on the folks who will just say, "what are you complaining about, you're white, that's not even a race." Considering I don't wear a sticker that tells people who and what I am, it's rude for people to make assumptions.

**Just to point out, obviously no one in the thread said this, I was just using the example that I've encountered in my life to agree with the above point.

 

[missworld]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Missworld specifically has a history of encouraging people to vote. If they agree with her.

Firstly try reading my reply

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer If they don't...well. They're better off, in her mind, staying away from the polls. Indeed.

Here is a perfect example of Shimmer's debating skills or lack there of.



Missworld

 

[Lapis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer There's an LJ user with a "Sarah Palin is a fucking CUNT" icon floating around. I read a variety of blogs.

Yes and that is the ONLY one I've seen that is so out there, how is 1 person supposed to be the sum of all the out there anti Palin stuff??
I don't get your point?
I visit atleast 10-20 blogs, news sites and forums daily from several countries and LJ is the only place I've seen that icon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMBG83 Plus maybe not on daily basis but I cant even count how often Ive been called brown sugar by non ethinic guys, which is pretty damn old by now. Or assuming my sexual prowess is through the roof since Im a black women is completely annoying.

LOL I have soo many stories about that type of thing, but being the twisted person I am I smile and ask if they'll let me tie them up and add "I have the perfect flogger" and they generally give me a WTF look and leave me alone, the truly subborn I fine if I add I'd love to use needles on their nuts they leave me alone

Quote:

Originally Posted by TISH1127 Too funny! I get that all the time too!! Or I get ....Ohhh how would you like a lil cream in your coffee!! My response...I hate Coffee!!

LOL I generally tell them I like tea

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous Honestly I don't get why people get so upset about this. Burning effigies or making mocking effigies of politicians is hardly something revolutionary...it may not be the most tasteful way to express one's political sentiment but I hardly see this as a racist act, more a political statement. *shrug*People will always find something to get pissed off or offended about.

I think it's not something that is usual in our generation, I know that when I was little on Guy Fawkes Guy Fawkes Night - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There were effigies burnt but I'm only 30 and I'm pretty sure my last memory of it was my first year in primary school

 

[redambition]

as much as i am not a fan of mccain and palin's political stance.. this is not cool and not ok. i think it's crossed the line.

 

[florabundance]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDoll I couldn't have said it better. Could you imagine the type of uproar that would have caused?? Some people have no class...and I'm really not surprised that this was the first I've heard of this. Seems (like you said) that it seems to be "okay" or acceptable to hang a white Replublican rather than an African American. Either one is NOT okay. Sorry, but what the hell is wrong with people these days?? What's not to understand in this situation?? Hypocrisy is the key word kids.

I'm still confused.

WHERE in the article did it say that it was a racially motivated act?

 

[spectrolite]

I don't think it was racially motivated and I certainly do not think it's a hate crime. I read the news story on a few different sites but it does not say which race the person who hung the effigy is. Would it still be a hate crime if a white person hung it or would it remain just an effigy?? And from what I read the "attack" was not just against Palin. Above her John McCain is coming out of a flaming chimney. If we look at the piece of "art" as a whole I think it is pretty clear that who ever was responsible was making a political statement and not saying "Hang white women and burn white men."

I think you have to look at the effigy in context. It's Halloween soon, there is an election coming and people are going to do all sorts of crazy things.. like hang effigies from thier rooftops. And as MissCheivous pointed out - this isn't anything new! People have been burning, beheading, hanging, poking, dragging, and blowing up political effigies for a very long time and they will continue to do so as long as there are politicians around.

And of course the reaction would be very different if it were an Obama effigy hanging on its on. But surely it is obvious why that would be case? There is a history of racially motivated lynching violence against African Americans in America and a lynched effigy of Obama would automatically make people think of that. Unfortunately that's just the way things are because of the way history happend. Honestly I think that this is just another one of those bitter "Race Threads" that never goes forward - just around and around.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by missworld Firstly try reading my reply Here is a perfect example of Shimmer's debating skills or lack there of. Missworld

I did read your reply. Even the part where you said not to respond.


Quote:

Originally Posted by missworld That's Rhetorical BTW don't waste your keystokes. missworld

I still rarely agree with your posts, definitely do not agree with your politics, and completely love watching your personal attacks as they fizzle across cyberspace.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapis Yes and that is the ONLY one I've seen that is so out there, how is 1 person supposed to be the sum of all the out there anti Palin stuff?? I don't get your point? I visit atleast 10-20 blogs, news sites and forums daily from several countries and LJ is the only place I've seen that icon.

I'm not talking about the icon. The icon was one example.
News feeds, blog posts, etc. It's there. All you have to do is go and read, the same as all I have to do is go and read to read some pretty nasty stuff about Obama.