Jena 6

[QTAllStarGurl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer None of these kids were angels.

I know they're not but I'm just saying with that pattern of events if things had been handled differently the situation could have been avoided...b/c i def. dont think any of these kids were angels...all of them did some pretty terrible things

 

[Indigowaters]

That wasn't even called for. Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Indeed.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saleemah Most black people are not bitter they are still facing the affects of slavery and discrimination every time they walk out of the door. I know that I am Black every time I walk outside my door, not because I think about it but because I remember when I am ignored or not waited on or when someone crosses the street or when everyone leaves the bench on the train when I sit down. Native Americans were brutalized and continue to suffer. It is not a matter of one pain being worst than the other. Everyone should be outraged when someone are not treated equally, color should not matter. I am outraged when anyone is treated unfairly. Someone one once said (don't have the energy to look it up) Bad things happen when good people do nothing (something like that).

That's true. It's wrong when anyone is treated unfairly by another group of people.
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As far as the rape thing go the statistic are the same regarding women being raped by the opposite race: 4.2% of both victims and the population are of other races, according to the 2000 National Crime Victimization Study Can can happen to any women, it only becomes news when the victim is white and the perpetrator is black. Black men are portrayed as violent in the media all the time any many people believe it as if a whole race of people could be naturally violent. What is sad is that everyone believes it. Any woman can be raped walking alone in a strange neighborhood. Most victims and perpetrators are of the same race.

Black men are portrayed as violent through their art form(s), mannerism of speaking (on average), and behavior.
Same as 20something white frat boys are portrayed through their own choice as douche bag Dane Cook wanna bes.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indigowaters That wasn't even called for.

o.o

What wasn't?
You *sigh*ed, and said something to the effect of 'goodnight', to which I responded 'indeed' in (apparently not so obvious) a tone of resignation as I thought.
What wasn't called for?

 

[Saleemah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Black men are portrayed as violent through their art form(s), mannerism of speaking (on average), and behavior. Same as 20something white frat boys are portrayed through their own choice as douchebag Dane Cook wanna bes.

That's like me saying all white people are like what I see on the Jerry Springer Show, I am more intelligent than that. Do you think all Mexicans are gangsters or all Asians are rude. What is sad is that you could have a black man working for you and they would never know that you believe all of these stereotypes. You probably have seen tons of successful, positive, and nonviolent black men but you only remember the few bad apples have depicted. To your surprise, it's not black people that buy rap music it is non-Blacks:

Although rap maintains a strong African American base, most rap albums are bought by white fans. According to a recent SoundScan survey, two-thirds of all rap music in 1997 was purchased by white consumers, and nearly 50% of all rap music is purchased by those under 18.

Just because a group of people speak different from you does not mean that they are violent or ignorant. You sit on a very high horse. It must a very scary world if you go around thinking black men are going to rape you. Now that is laughable.

 

[Saleemah]

I am going to bed, things will never change.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saleemah That's like me saying all white people are like what I see on the Jerry Springer Show, I am more intelligent than that. Do you think all Mexicans are gangsters or all Asians are rude.

No, I don't. My sons interact with mexican and black children regularly (aside from the rock throwing girls) and they have a great time. They don't identify them as races, they simply call them friends.

Quote:

What is sad is that you could have a black man working for you and they would never know that you believe all of these stereotypes. You probably have seen tons of successful, positive, and nonviolent black men but you only remember the few bad apples have depicted.

Actually no, seeing a smart young man in my daily life doesn't bother me a bit, and I am glad to see the guy bustin his balls to make his dream happen. More power to him, but is he black? I don't care, is he white? ok, that's cool too.

Quote:

To your surprise, it's not black people that buy rap music it is non-Blacks: Although rap maintains a strong African American base, most rap albums are bought by white fans. According to a recent SoundScan survey, two-thirds of all rap music in 1997 was purchased by white consumers, and nearly 50% of all rap music is purchased by those under 18. Just because a group of people speak different from you does not mean that they are violent or ignorant.

I didn't say it did. But those artists are presenting themselves in a violent manner of speaking and attitude.
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You sit on a very high horse. It must a very scary world if you go around thinking black men are going to rape you. Now that is laughable.

I never said I go around the world thinking the black man will rape the white woman.
I said that there are parts local to my area that particular situation has occurred, regularly, and I choose to have no part in them.
There are places I go and chill with all kinds of people about things, and the idea of the four black men I have just been hanging with raping me would be proposterous.
But situational awareness says that it's not unreal to be in the situation I described earlier ... a white woman in a 'black' gas station being jostled, bumped, called names etc., on purpose, for no other reason than she's white, could be in a far graver danger if she opens her mouth and defends herself. According to xolovinoo that right there is grounds for the white woman and her f amily to retaliate cuz you ain't supposed to be talking shit.

 

[kimmy]

i've seen alot of ladies bringing up the question of why they were charged with attempted murder among their other charges...the law sees it this way: if it's one on one, you're fighting. if the ratio is greater than two against one, the law sees it as you intend to murder the victim. and the average sentence for attempted second degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder is 25-35 years.

 

[TrusyMyEyes]

Wow! Some of y'all are preaching up in here! Teach and Preach on.

I did it for 4 years in college. Not everyone will get it, but even those who read these post may be changed for the better. Get a different point of view, pick up a book, read a little about the history of this country from non govermental supplied textbooks.

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrusyMyEyes Wow! Some of y'all are preaching up in here! Teach and Preach on. I did it for 4 years in college. Not everyone will get it, but even those who read these post may be changed for the better. Get a different point of view, pick up a book, read a little about the history of this country from non govermental supplied textbooks.

i've picked up books and read them cover to cover, thanks. don't think we're ignorant just because we have a different point of view. i don't think that means anyone needs to change for "the better," i actually find that comment kind of rude and uncalled for...but maybe i'm just sensitive.

i know the history of my country like the back of my hand...which is why i also know about the atrocities commited by early english settlers against many different groups of caucasions, including irish and italian immigrants.

 

[aziza]

Ouch! My head aches a little bit from reading this thread lol

Calm down ya'll. Getting upset with each other isn't going to change anything. Everything I write after this is just my random thoughts on some of the topics that have been brought up.


I don't think the Jena 6's intention was to kill the kid they beat up. They jumped him because he was talking smack. And for that they should be thoroughly punished. Expelled. Yes. Put on probation. Yes. But 22 years? That doesn't seem a little excessive? And a sneaker as a deadly weapon? Please.

And what if the situation had been flipped? I think a distinction should be made. 6 white dudes beating up a black kid does not constitute a hate crime. On the other hand 6 white dudes whipping a black kid's ass because he's black does. I just had to throw that out there.

Can black people be racist? Yes. Anyone can be racist. And it's wrong.

Kimmy, I don't think Trusymyeyes was speaking directly to you. She was referring to anyone who happened to be reading this thread. And I hardily agree with her. Schools teach children an edited version of American history and race relations starting with Columbus' "discovery" of the Americas. It's a bunch of crap really.

Fun racial fact of the day: Did you know that in the early 20th century, European immigrants had to "apply" for whiteness? Sad but true.

Ok...I sleepy now. We'll chat more later on. Goodnight!

 

[CantAffordMAC]

since nobody replied to what I posted, I'll post it again.

One white man jumped in front of the woman and a fight followed, and then once the white male and the black students were outside, another fight occurred with the group of black students and a group of white men.

Theres also a difference between 1 white guy fighting 1 black guy (which seemed to be the case) until they were all kicked outside, and it seems like from there on out, the fight was between a group of white males and a group of black males. Not a white guy fighting a black guy, and not 6 black guys fighting one white guy.

So would it have been handled differently if the Jena 6 had beat 6 white students instead of 1? Would it have been considered a fight with no intent to kill? The group of white men fought the group of black boys, and one of the white men got probation. Thats all? The black boys were trying to enter the party (which may be trespassing, I don't know that whole story exactly) so the white guys decided to fight them. So, it really doesn't matter what the black guys did to motivate this fight, because the white guys shouldn't have took matters into their own hands and fought the boys.

 

[Shimmer]

The white guy who fought them at the door was put on probation etc. due to being charged.

The guys who got in the fight later had to deal with the police but no one was charged with anything.

They weren't 'kicked outside' because they were never let into the barn.

The white guys shouldn't have fought the boys regardless of what the boys said? Isn't that the same thing others have said about the six black boys who beat up the white boy? He was 'talking shit' and was 'taught a lesson'. Because he's white, it's 'ok' to teach him that lesson, because he was talking smack? No.

There seems to be the assumption that these black kids were walking around talking about rainbows and puppies and sunshine and pretty rocks when all these evil white fo'k start treating them poorly and calling them names. These are 16 year old males. They've ALL got mouths on them, and they ALL run their mouths. No one deserves having the shit kicked out of them for running their mouth, but I guarantee, those kids, ALL OF THEM, talked some seriously racial smack to each other LONG before any of this nonsense went down.

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aziza Kimmy, I don't think Trusymyeyes was speaking directly to you. She was referring to anyone who happened to be reading this thread. And I hardily agree with her. Schools teach children an edited version of American history and race relations starting with Columbus' "discovery" of the Americas. It's a bunch of crap really.

schools do teach kids an edited version of american history. it wasn't until i picked up a book outside of school that i found out that many groups of caucasions were also descriminated against and were victims of hate crimes.

which is why it's extremely upsetting to me for anyone to claim that jim crow and things like slavery were edited out of my schooling because they certainly were not. between the third grade and my senior year in high school, we were taught about in depth it every single year. however, we were never taught about the way, say, the irish were treated when they came to the states...and because we're not taught about that in school, many people think it didn't happen. school also doesn't teach you about the various african and middle eastern cities which were known to have killed anyone with pale skin, blonde hair and blue eyes.

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CantAffordMAC Would it have been considered a fight with no intent to kill? The group of white men fought the group of black boys, and one of the white men got probation. Thats all?

legally, no, it wouldn't have been considered intent to kill if the ratio was balanced.

they probably recieved probation because they had no previous record. mychall bell had priors which is why he recieved such a harsh sentence. juveniles who are on their first offense generally don't get anything more than probation, but if they have priors, the judge is going to take the into consideration.

 

[CantAffordMAC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer The white guys shouldn't have fought the boys regardless of what the boys said? Isn't that the same thing others have said about the six black boys who beat up the white boy? He was 'talking shit' and was 'taught a lesson'. Because he's white, it's 'ok' to teach him that lesson, because he was talking smack? No. There seems to be the assumption that these black kids were walking around talking about rainbows and puppies and sunshine and pretty rocks when all these evil white fo'k start treating them poorly and calling them names. These are 16 year old males. They've ALL got mouths on them, and they ALL run their mouths. No one deserves having the shit kicked out of them for running their mouth, but I guarantee, those kids, ALL OF THEM, talked some seriously racial smack to each other LONG before any of this nonsense went down.

That was my point. The black students shuldn't have touched the white student, no matter what he was saying to provoke them. The white guys at the party should've never touched the black kids, no matter what the black kids did to motivate them. If it was trespassing, then call the cops. I guess they knew that they could fight the black students and the most they would get is probation.


I agree with you. I think most, if not all, the boys in this situation are high school smart asses who probably did go back and forth with eachother. I certainly hope no one is treating the black students (or the white student) like angels, because they definetly aren't. Just because they've been in jail doesn't mean everyone should pity them. If it is Louisiana law that jumping one other person is attempted murder and that sneakers are deadly weapons, then fine. I just find that hard to believe. Punish everyone in the situation, not just a select few. Don't make the punishments extremely different (suspended for a few days/expelled vs. 10 months in jail/attempted murder charges). Everyone should be punished for what they did wrong, but not cruel and unusual.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aziza Fun racial fact of the day: Did you know that in the early 20th century, European immigrants had to "apply" for whiteness? Sad but true.

Many Native Americans who live on reservations deal with the federal government through two agencies: the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the Indian Health Service.

Some Indian reservations offer a quality of life that is among the poorest to be found in the United States. Life qualities in reservations are sometimes so poor that they're easily comparable to the quality of life in the developing world. Shannon County, South Dakota, home of the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, is routinely described as one of the poorest counties in the nation.

Sad but true. :/


While Angelina Jolie and her buddy are running around saving the world...look what's going on in their own back yard.
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Life in the Pine Ridge Reservation is very poor, probably easily comparable to the least developed countries of the Third World. Unemployment on the Reservation hovers around 85% and 97% live below the Federal poverty level. Average annual family income is $3,800 as of 1999. Adolescent suicide is four times the national average. Many of the families have no electricity, telephone, running water, or sewer. Many families use wood stoves to heat their homes. The population on Pine Ridge has among the shortest life expectancies of any group in the Western Hemisphere: approximately 47 years for males and in the low 50s for females. The infant mortality rate is five times the United States national average. Despite the lack of formal employment opportunities on Pine Ridge, there is a great deal of agricultural production taking place, yet only a small percentage of the tribe directly benefits from this. According to the USDA, in 2002 there was nearly 33 million dollars in receipts from agricultural production on Pine Ridge, yet less than 1/3rd of that income went to members of the tribe USDA 2002 Census of Agriculture for Native American Reservations

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CantAffordMAC Everyone should be punished for what they did wrong, but not cruel and unusual.

that's the thing though, everyone involved in the original incident was punished accordingly. the hanging of nooses isn't technically illegal and therefore could not be punished by law. however, six boys ganging up on on is illegal and seen as extremely malicious with intent to kill by the law...so the law took care of it.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CantAffordMAC That was my point. The black students shuldn't have touched the white student, no matter what he was saying to provoke them. The white guys at the party should've never touched the black kids, no matter what the black kids did to motivate them. If it was trespassing, then call the cops. I guess they knew that they could fight the black students and the most they would get is probation. I agree with you. I think most, if not all, the boys in this situation are high school smart asses who probably did go back and forth with eachother. I certainly hope no one is treating the black students (or the white student) like angels, because they definetly aren't. Just because they've been in jail doesn't mean everyone should pity them. If it is Louisiana law that jumping one other person is attempted murder and that sneakers are deadly weapons, then fine. I just find that hard to believe. Punish everyone in the situation, not just a select few. Don't make the punishments extremely different (suspended for a few days/expelled vs. 10 months in jail/attempted murder charges). Everyone should be punished for what they did wrong, but not cruel and unusual.

Have you ever been to Louisiana?

 

[Indigowaters]

It's funny what a set of double standards there are in this discussion. One person says that they fear being raped or bothered when in a black neighborhood and I'm not supposed to see anything wrong with that, yet when I say I treat someone of another color like blood, that's considered insensitive. Aside from all the legal, racism is wrong. Whether it's free speech or not burning crosses, hanging nooses or whatever symbol for racism is wrong. Like I said before and will say again, the six black students WERE wrong for beating the one white boy. But let's not forget about the fact that racism still exists and should be dealt with (just not with violence).