Jena 6

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Indigowaters It's funny what a set of double standards there are in this discussion. One person says that they fear being raped or bothered when in a black neighborhood and I'm not supposed to see anything wrong with that, yet when I say I treat someone of another color like blood, that's considered insensitive. Aside from all the legal, racism is wrong. Whether it's free speech or not burning crosses, hanging nooses or whatever symbol for racism is wrong. Like I said before and will say again, the six black students WERE wrong for beating the one white boy. But let's not forget about the fact that racism still exists and should be dealt with (just not with violence).

I didn't say that I fear black people, I didn't say that I fear being raped or bothered in every 'black neighborhood' in the country. I said there are places I won't go because of evidence to support my position, whether it's anecdotal, personal, or criminally supported. And, it's not just 'black neighborhoods'. It's simply certain zip codes that I'm simply not welcome, I know it, the residents know it, and that's all there is to it. Old article, but relevant.



Racism does exist, but what's really racist?
Is it racist for me to look at a black man and say "You're black."
No, it's not.
It's a fact. He's black.
It IS racist to say "You're black therefore you suck."
That's racist. Being black doesn't mean he sucks, being black doesn't mean he's a bad person, being black means he's got a higher risk for diabetes and less a chance of sunburning working in the yard than I do (though he still can).
Acknowledgment of racial or ethnic differences, or cultural ones, is not racism.
Action upon that acknowledgment in a manner that's detrimental to the individual is.

 

[komischkatze]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer Have you ever been to Louisiana?

Heeeeeey, Texas. ;p

I have to say that we do have our fair share of laws that people from other states seem to find surprising. I've talked to a few people who find our gun laws about carjacking... different. If you're driving around and someone tries to carjack you, you can just shoot them and it's considered justifiable. Of course, compressing the law into one sentence oversimplifies it but you get the idea. Your car is an extension of your home so... I believe that law's still in effect though honestly I haven't checked lately since I don't carry a gun in my car (though most of my family does).

Lawyers from other states and Louisiana lawyers going elsewhere, have to study up differently. It's mostly for issues of civil law from what I understand, not criminal law. But if you had studied Louisiana law specifically, you'd need to study all over again for other places. Our legal system has a different base than the rest of the country.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by komischkatze Heeeeeey, Texas. ;p I have to say that we do have our fair share of laws that people from other states seem to find surprising. I've talked to a few people who find our gun laws about carjacking... different. If you're driving around and someone tries to carjack you, you can just shoot them and it's considered justifiable. Of course, compressing the law into one sentence oversimplifies it but you get the idea. Your car is an extension of your home so... I believe that law's still in effect though honestly I haven't checked lately since I don't carry a gun in my car (though most of my family does). Lawyers from other states and Louisiana lawyers going elsewhere, have to study up differently. It's mostly for issues of civil law from what I understand, not criminal law. But if you had studied Louisiana law specifically, you'd need to study all over again for other places. Our legal system has a different base than the rest of the country.

Texas is a concealed weapon state, legally, I can fire upon an intruder based on:
In general, one (sometimes more) of a variety of conditions must be met before a person can can legally use the Castle Doctrine:

* An intruder must be making an attempt to forcibly enter a premises uninvited
* The intruder must be acting illegally -- i.e. the Castle Doctrine does not give the right to shoot officers of the law acting in the course of their legal duties
* The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to inflict serious bodily harm, or death, upon an occupant of the home
* The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to commit a felony
* The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to commit arson
* The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to commit burglary
* The occupant(s) of the home must not have provoked or instigated an intrusion, or provoked or instigated an intruder to threaten or use deadly force

In all cases, the occupant(s) of the home must be there legally, must not be fugitives from the law, must not be using the Castle Doctrine to aid or abet another person in being a fugitive from the law, and must not use deadly force upon an officer of the law or an office of the peace while they are performing or attempting to perform their legal duties.

Note: the term "home" is used because most states only apply their Castle Doctrine to a place of residence; however, some states extend the protection to other legally-occupied places such as automobiles and places of business.




But knowing that LA law is different from other places helps in understanding why there may be questions from those unfamiliar with the laws about why things were done the way they were in Jena.

 

[yummy411]

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Originally Posted by NutMeg I'm also somewhat annoyed that the charge was attempted murder.

i'm overly annoyed with this fact!

 

[aziza]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer Many Native Americans who live on reservations deal with the federal government through two agencies: the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the Indian Health Service. Some Indian reservations offer a quality of life that is among the poorest to be found in the United States. Life qualities in reservations are sometimes so poor that they're easily comparable to the quality of life in the developing world. Shannon County, South Dakota, home of the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, is routinely described as one of the poorest counties in the nation. Sad but true. :/

I know this and it is heartbreaking. One of the options that I'm considering after graduation is volunteering with Americorps at a reservation. I'm only one person, but hopefully my little contribution can postively effect someone and spark a change.

 

[komischkatze]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer But knowing that LA law is different from other places helps in understanding why there may be questions from those unfamiliar with the laws about why things were done the way they were in Jena.

Yeah, I do think a few things can be explained by our legal differences (such as why they were charged as adults) but do want to be clear that what happened in Jena overall is NOT standard LA legal practice.

Since the tennis shoe deadly weapon thing keeps coming up, I do want to point out that it was one lawyer who tried to push the shoes as a deadly weapon. It was NOT accepted (because it's freakin' ridiculous). That particular lawyer is obviously out of his gourd. It's not like we normally consider tennis shoes deadly weapons in LA.

 

[kimmy]

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Originally Posted by yummy411 i'm overly annoyed with this fact!

if six male adults started beating the hell out of you, would you fear for your life?

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer This very well could be my idea of utopia. Do I get to vote people off the island??

Somehow i dont think you'd be the winner of Survivor.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Raerae Somehow i dont think you'd be the winner of Survivor.

I wouldn't let you on my island. And, you'd never have to worry about being the winner of Survivor or not, the only skill you'd bring to the table is the ability to go without eating, or eating very little, for a day or three.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmy if six male adults started beating the hell out of you, would you fear for your life?

That depends. Are they hitting me for the fun of it or with intention behind it? Did I do anything to instigate this? Is there a lesson I need to be taught? What kind of shoes are they wearing (I agree, the tennis shoe thing is ridiculous...)? Are they actually putting effort into it or is this a half hearted beat down? What's the weather like? Did one of them have a bad day yesterday? Am I in the wrong area? So much to mitigate whether I would fear for my life, or just go into it knowing I'm going to be slapped around.*

No one should have to ever worry about walking down the street and getting a 'beat down'. No one should ever have to worry about whether someone's going to use their steel toed boots against the person to kick the crap out of them. People shouldn't be raised to devalue someone based on nothing, and instead should be taught to evaluate people for their actions, words, and carriage, instead of skin tone. That's unlikely to ever happen, but it would be nice.


*Satire, scathing commentary, and mild irritation apply.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by aziza I know this and it is heartbreaking. One of the options that I'm considering after graduation is volunteering with Americorps at a reservation. I'm only one person, but hopefully my little contribution can postively effect someone and spark a change.

So much pride in the people on the reservations, it's part of what holds them back.




What would be a fair punishment for the six?
I don't think it's fair that a premeditated attack be put on juvenile records and closed once their 18, but I also don't think it's fair to charge them as adults with attempted murder etc.
I think (my opinion only) that trying them as adults (so the attack stays on their record, that's a fair consequence, I think...) but not putting them in jail for 64651316857984651 years, and instead having them do anger management, community service, and counseling (along with supervised probation) would probably be a better course.
Also having some kind of anger management course for the campus itself would likely be a good idea, but that's something the trial itself can't mandate.

 

[QTAllStarGurl]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer What would be a fair punishment for the six? I don't think it's fair that a premeditated attack be put on juvenile records and closed once their 18, but I also don't think it's fair to charge them as adults with attempted murder etc. I think (my opinion only) that trying them as adults (so the attack stays on their record, that's a fair consequence, I think...) but not putting them in jail for 64651316857984651 years, and instead having them do anger management, community service, and counseling (along with supervised probation) would probably be a better course. Also having some kind of anger management course for the campus itself would likely be a good idea, but that's something the trial itself can't mandate.

I think that would have been a fair punishment..

because I also don't think that incident should be taken off their record when they turn 18 but i think the 10months mychal spent in jail was enough as far as jail time

 

[Beauty Mark]

Too bad there aren't laws that try one as a teenager. Sometimes, children's laws are too lenient but adult laws are too much.

 

[Indigowaters]

This is what I said earlier!!!!! Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer What would be a fair punishment for the six? I don't think it's fair that a premeditated attack be put on juvenile records and closed once their 18, but I also don't think it's fair to charge them as adults with attempted murder etc. I think (my opinion only) that trying them as adults (so the attack stays on their record, that's a fair consequence, I think...) but not putting them in jail for 64651316857984651 years, and instead having them do anger management, community service, and counseling (along with supervised probation) would probably be a better course. Also having some kind of anger management course for the campus itself would likely be a good idea, but that's something the trial itself can't mandate.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by QTAllStarGurl I think that would have been a fair punishment.. because I also don't think that incident should be taken off their record when they turn 18 but i think the 10months mychal spent in jail was enough as far as jail time

Did he spend the time there because no one could post bail? Or was bail not set? I haven't checked that.

Also, remember, that kid had priors, fairly notable ones, IIRC.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Indigowaters This is what I said earlier!!!!!

Indeed. I apologise for not acknowledging that.

But still, a whole town/campus/whatever can't go through racial sensitivity training, and when the whole town, regardless of race, models racist behaviour, what else are the kids supposed to learn?

 

[Indigowaters]

Bail was set for $45,000. But it was originally set for $90,000.
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/law/0...ef=mpstoryview
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Originally Posted by Shimmer Did he spend the time there because no one could post bail? Or was bail not set? I haven't checked that. Also, remember, that kid had priors, fairly notable ones, IIRC.

 

[Indigowaters]

Well I think shedding light on the town is a start. Maybe people will acknowledge their behavior and move forward. Others won't. But we can't say it can't be done. Alot of things have been turned around in this country, much less a small city. Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Indeed. I apologise for not acknowledging that. But still, a whole town/campus/whatever can't go through racial sensitivity training, and when the whole town, regardless of race, models racist behaviour, what else are the kids supposed to learn?

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer I wouldn't let you on my island.

This is about the closest thing to an island as you'll ever have Shim. And so far, you're ability to get me voted off hasn't been very successful. Your welcome to share my hammock under the palm trees any time though.

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And, you'd never have to worry about being the winner of Survivor or not, the only skill you'd bring to the table is the ability to go without eating, or eating very little, for a day or three.

Considering whats availible to eat on Survivor, thats probably one of the better skills to have.

And chances are we eat the same amount but if thinking I starve myself lets u sleep better at night, you go girl.

 

[MAChostage]

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Originally Posted by kimmy schools do teach kids an edited version of american history. it wasn't until i picked up a book outside of school that i found out that many groups of caucasions were also descriminated against and were victims of hate crimes. which is why it's extremely upsetting to me for anyone to claim that jim crow and things like slavery were edited out of my schooling because they certainly were not. between the third grade and my senior year in high school, we were taught about in depth it every single year. however, we were never taught about the way, say, the irish were treated when they came to the states...and because we're not taught about that in school, many people think it didn't happen. school also doesn't teach you about the various african and middle eastern cities which were known to have killed anyone with pale skin, blonde hair and blue eyes.

Ok... so you learned about Jim Crow and slavery. Wow. I'm sure, then, that the real, in-depth, QUALITY teaching of American history you received from your school system probably was comprised of blurbs about the Underground Railroad, Martin Luther King, Jr., Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglas. Ooh, and if ya'll got really tricky with it you might have even touched on Malcolm X! None of the so-called American History that was taught in any of the public schools I attended in the 60's and 70's went much past those things I just mentioned. And here's the kicker: my own daughter, who just turned 20, had the same pitiful and lacking American History teachings that have always been. What progress!

And I have to say that I am seriously tired of the marginalization of the entire black experience in our country, to include slavery (which many think that black folks should just "get over".)

I hate to view the glass as half-empty, but the sad fact is that things will never change, because many will choose to continue to bury their heads in the sand about the facts concerning race and race relations in America. To that end we will have to agree to disagree and attempt to co-exist in a civil fashion.

It really saddens me that we've still got, in 2000-damn-7, most of the same race issues -- and ignorance -- that have existed from the start.

 

[kimmy]

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Originally Posted by MAChostage Ok... so you learned about Jim Crow and slavery. Wow. I'm sure, then, that the real, in-depth, QUALITY teaching of American history you received from your school system probably was comprised of blurbs about the Underground Railroad, Martin Luther King, Jr., Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglas. Ooh, and if ya'll got really tricky with it you might have even touched on Malcolm X! None of the so-called American History that was taught in any of the public schools I attended in the 60's and 70's went much past those things I just mentioned. And here's the kicker: my own daughter, who just turned 20, had the same pitiful and lacking American History teachings that have always been. What progress! And I have to say that I am seriously tired of the marginalization of the entire black experience in our country, to include slavery (which many think that black folks should just "get over".) I hate to view the glass as half-empty, but the sad fact is that things will never change, because many will choose to continue to bury their heads in the sand about the facts concerning race and race relations in America. To that end we will have to agree to disagree and attempt to co-exist in a civil fashion. It really saddens me that we've still got, in 2000-damn-7, most of the same race issues -- and ignorance -- that have existed from the start.

thank you for insulting my intelligence, i appreciate that.

we spent six months learning about malcolm x, and he was the least covered african american historical icon throughout my schooling. so don't tell me i don't know shit.

now, what can you tell me about the irish endentured servants? probably not a damn thing. most people can't because it isn't covered in any state's core cirriculum.

sorry if i sound bitchy i just think it's flat out ridiculous that someone wants to come at me and talk shit on the education i recieved. if you sat next to me for the past thirteen years, feel free to pass judgement on my education and my intelligence, but that isn't the case.