Middle Eastern Society

Status
Not open for further replies.

Macnarsandlove

Well-known member
3. If you dont like it here than why dont you do something about it or go back to your country. If you dont like the way America does things instead of whining about it make a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amoona
And THAT whole "go back to your country" crap is why I have issues living in America POST-9/11. Hmmm ... I thought everyone liked to brag about how America is a free country yet I can't voice my complaints about the treatment ME people and Muslim people recieve after 9/11?! Interesting ...

I didnt mean that in such the horrible way that you took it. If you dont like something you have 2 options-go ahead with it or move on. You obviously want to be here for some reason that doesnt out weigh your dislikes for the US. You can voice your opinion. If you want something done DO something. If you feel ME and muslim ppl are being treated unfairly there are a # of outlets for you. Change has never came about with silience.
 

amoona

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by smith130
3. If you dont like it here than why dont you do something about it or go back to your country. If you dont like the way America does things instead of whining about it make a difference.



I didnt mean that in such the horrible way that you took it. If you dont like something you have 2 options-go ahead with it or move on. You obviously want to be here for some reason that doesnt out weigh your dislikes for the US. You can voice your opinion. If you want something done DO something. If you feel ME and muslim ppl are being treated unfairly there are a # of outlets for you. Change has never came about with silience.


Obviously you don't know me because if you did then you would know I'm very active in my community. I'm very involved and have been for many years now.
 

mena22787

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by smith130
3. If you dont like it here than why dont you do something about it or go back to your country. If you dont like the way America does things instead of whining about it make a difference.


this is sooo unfair and off base. don't we all have the right to complain about our stupid government? isn't that the entire basis of this country??!

and if you truly believed that foreigners who complain should go back to their native country, shouldn't you take this advice yourself? cuz i'm sure that we've all complained about this country, so now all of us have to go back to where our lineage came from? geeze, i'd have to split myself up between france, scotland, england, ireland, armenia, and iran. that kinda sucks...
 

Macnarsandlove

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mena22787
this is sooo unfair and off base. don't we all have the right to complain about our stupid government? isn't that the entire basis of this country??!

and if you truly believed that foreigners who complain should go back to their native country, shouldn't you take this advice yourself? cuz i'm sure that we've all complained about this country, so now all of us have to go back to where our lineage came from? geeze, i'd have to split myself up between france, scotland, england, ireland, armenia, and iran. that kinda sucks...


Once again let me make it CRYSTAL CLEAR- U DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN ALL YOU WANT TO! And that is one of the many reasons why America is great. I thought I made this evident in my previous post be I guess not. All I am saying is the same ppl that talk about the president usually dont vote, the same ppl that are so concerned about the earth drive monster SUV's, please let me know if you dont get the analogy. The fact is most ppl are comfortable with the status quo and whine and do NOTHING! If you arent like this then that comment doesnt apply to you.
On the other issue if you came on a plane here to live your life I assume that your an adult and made that decision based on a multitude of reasons. If you dont like it then go back. If I thought the US really sucked I sure as hell wouldnt live here.
And please dont start on lineage. I am 75% black and 25% puerto rican. If you need that history lesson pm me.
 

amoona

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by smith130
All I am saying is the same ppl that talk about the president usually dont vote, the same ppl that are so concerned about the earth drive monster SUV's, please let me know if you dont get the analogy. The fact is most ppl are comfortable with the status quo and whine and do NOTHING! If you arent like this then that comment doesnt apply to you.
On the other issue if you came on a plane here to live your life I assume that your an adult and made that decision based on a multitude of reasons. If you dont like it then go back. If I thought the US really sucked I sure as hell wouldnt live here.
And please dont start on lineage. I am 75% black and 25% puerto rican. If you need that history lesson pm me.


I've voted in every election since I turned 18. I don't just sit and whine I do stuff, I'm very involved with many different groups. I'm involved with Palestinian rights groups on campus (General Union of Palestine Students), Palestinian right to return groups internationally (Al-Awda), anti-war groups on campus (Students Against War), CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations), now through MAC I'm also involved in the amazing Viva Glam campaign. I'm also very involved with promoting my cultural heritage to the community through many different ways. I was also involved with the San Francisco Arab Culture Center. That, school, and work ... I'd say I'm pretty involved.

So can I now go back to just sitting and "whinning" without being deported?!
 

Macnarsandlove

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by amoona
I've voted in every election since I turned 18. I don't just sit and whine I do stuff, I'm very involved with many different groups. I'm involved with Palestinian rights groups on campus (General Union of Palestine Students), Palestinian right to return groups internationally (Al-Awda), anti-war groups on campus (Students Against War), CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations), now through MAC I'm also involved in the amazing Viva Glam campaign. I'm also very involved with promoting my cultural heritage to the community through many different ways. I was also involved with the San Francisco Arab Culture Center. That, school, and work ... I'd say I'm pretty involved.

So can I now go back to just sitting and "whinning" without being deported?!


Thats really good for you. Then the aformentioned comment wasnt directed at you. It was for the whiners.
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Please keepthe tone of the thread civil.
This isn't about bashing America.
Nor is it about bashing Muslims, Islam, refugees, etc. There's no reason this subject cannot be discussed without the degeneration of the commentary into "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT LEAVE!!!11211`~!!" and "I HATE AMERICA SO BAD I'M SO READY TO GO!!!!"

I ask that this be kept on topic.
 

*Stargazer*

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by smith130
and pround of it!

smiles.gif
DH is too. Two thumbs up to ya!
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma_Frost
It's nice you think it but the FAA doesn't. Local police don't. When they've been instructed to pull over "suspicious" Middle Easterners and the US government justifies it as profiling there's something seriously wrong. Like why can't we have a fully secure nation instead of hassling only this ethnic group?



I think this could be why.

Are all of those Muslim attacks?
No.
Are all of the perpetrators Islamic?
No.
Are the majority of them?
Yes.


If you're walking down the street, and a white man walks up and slaps you, then leaves, you'll be stunned momentarily.
Next day, walking again, another white man walks up and slaps you.
Next day, walking again, you don't get slapped by a white man, but this time it's a hispanic man.
Next day, you're slapped again, this time by a black man.
Next day, it's a white man again.
Again, a white man slaps you.
Now, you're getting slapped by an asian man.
Now it's a white man again.
Four months go by and every day a white man is slapping you, the asians, blacks, and hispanics aren't slapping you anymore, only the white men.

All of a sudden, there's a stop in the daily slapping...
Are you going to be chill with every white man you see that day? Or are you going to eye him with distrust and wait on him to slap you as others have done?
 

mena22787

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by smith130
I thought I made this evident in my previous post be I guess not.

i posted a reply to this befoe i saw your comment to amoona. even so, i still think it was a perfectly legit comment
 

mena22787

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
I think this could be why.

Are all of those Muslim attacks?
No.
Are all of the perpetrators Islamic?
No.
Are the majority of them?
Yes.


If you're walking down the street, and a white man walks up and slaps you, then leaves, you'll be stunned momentarily.
Next day, walking again, another white man walks up and slaps you.
Next day, walking again, you don't get slapped by a white man, but this time it's a hispanic man.
Next day, you're slapped again, this time by a black man.
Next day, it's a white man again.
Again, a white man slaps you.
Now, you're getting slapped by an asian man.
Now it's a white man again.
Four months go by and every day a white man is slapping you, the asians, blacks, and hispanics aren't slapping you anymore, only the white men.

All of a sudden, there's a stop in the daily slapping...
Are you going to be chill with every white man you see that day? Or are you going to eye him with distrust and wait on him to slap you as others have done?


i woulda slapped 'em all back. anywho, i don't *totally* understand the slapping point here. so are all muslims guilty by association? or are muslims more culpable than other people?

and for once more...pleaaaaaaaase don't say that these terrorist attacks were islamic or the terrorists muslim. i hope everyone knows that the qur'an preaches no violence whatsoever. i hope that everyone knows that 'allah' is just the arabic word for god. i hope everyone knows that christianity's god is the same as judaism's god is the same as islam's god. i can't stand it when ppl write in 'allah' as a replacement for god. it's the same darn person (or w/e one interprets god to be.) i hope that everyone knows that the qur'an tells muslims that christians and jews are their brothers (or sisters), that they are all people of the book, and all have the same rights.

would you call david koresh and the waco tx massacre christian people?? cuz i'm pretty sure they were out of their gourds and i'm pretty sure that the bible doesn't preach violence either. how are these not the same thing??????? unlike the media, you can't call these crazy suicide-bombers and terrorists muslims because they're not. these people, like koresh and co., distort the religion into something that goes against the religion's teachings.

you know, i thought in the US we taught that stereotyping was a baaaad thing.

Are all of those Muslim attacks?
Nope, none of them are islamic.
Are all of the perpetrators Islamic?
Nope again, none of them are muslims.
Are the majority of them?
Nope, they're all just dirtbags.


i recommend that you all take a course/read a book on islam to learn about it. i find its principles to be so selfless and 'humanitarianistic.' (this should be a word, it's a good word!) btw, i'm atheist. just an fyi.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mena22787
actually, muslims believe that the qur'an is the exact words of god as told through the prophet mohammad. since it was told to mohammad directly by god in arabic, it is not supposed to be translated into other languages. (it's ok, to supplement your understanding in another language, but reading it in arabic actually encourages learning arabic as a second language. it also means that all muslims should be educated so that they themselves can read the exact words of god, since there are no mediums b/t a muslim and god).

ugh...

Everyone is missing my question lol...

I'm not asking about when to Qur'an was first translated. That was never my question. I was asking when it was first written down, in ARABIC.

Because regardless of what language a book is written in, versions of the book tend to change across generations (even if they are not translated). And I would like to know if anyone has an idea as to how the modern Qur'an compares to the oldest known copy of the Qur'an.

Especially if you consider how valuable written text was before the printing press, only those who were wealthy enough to comission a book would have them. Thus you have the power over the "word of god" being held by those who have the $.

I have a hard time believeing that the Qur'an was safe from manipulation by the leaders of the Islamic faith over the years, just like the bible of today is similar, but does not compare exactly to the bible of years past.
 

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
Quote:
so are all muslims guilty by association? or are muslims more culpable than other people?

If your only experience with Muslims is that of terrorism, you grow to expect it. I don't think it's right, but it's how it is for some people. I don't know about you all, but my hometown had no ME people to my knowledge. We had like 3 South Asians and a scattering of East Asians. Everyone else was black, white, or Puerto Rican, and pretty much everyone Christian, with a few Jewish families and some aetheists.

One of the links Shimmer posted lists other terrorist attacks that weren't recent from the ME.

Quote:
I have a hard time believeing that the Qur'an was safe from manipulation by the leaders of the Islamic faith over the years, just like the bible of today is similar, but does not compare exactly to the bible of years past.

I think pretty much every book on religion could be manipulated around, and I don't doubt someone has edited all of them at one point or another. It's nothing against the Bible, Qur'an, Torah, etc.
 

mena22787

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
ugh...

Everyone is missing my question lol...

I'm not asking about when to Qur'an was first translated. That was never my question. I was asking when it was first written down, in ARABIC.


actually, muslims believe that the qur'an is the exact words of god as told through the prophet mohammad. since it was told to mohammad directly by god in arabic, it is not supposed to be translated into other languages. (it's ok, to supplement your understanding in another language, but reading it in arabic actually encourages learning arabic as a second language. it also means that all muslims should be educated so that they themselves can read the exact words of god, since there are no mediums b/t a muslim and god).

however, interpretation of the qur'an is different depending on what school of teaching it is taken from. muslims also follow laws/government/ways of living/etc. from the example of muhammad. these are how muslim teachings/beliefs vary.

as far as oral tradition goes, i *believe* that mohammad's followers wrote everything down word for word right after he died.

can't answer definitively, since i'm no expert. could probably google it and find out thou. (my answer to every question is google it, lol)
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by amoona
So can I now go back to just sitting and "whinning" without being deported?!

Deport you where?

Your an American like it or not =P
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mena22787
actually, muslims believe that the qur'an is the exact words of god as told through the prophet mohammad. since it was told to mohammad directly by god in arabic, it is not supposed to be translated into other languages. (it's ok, to supplement your understanding in another language, but reading it in arabic actually encourages learning arabic as a second language. it also means that all muslims should be educated so that they themselves can read the exact words of god, since there are no mediums b/t a muslim and god).

however, interpretation of the qur'an is different depending on what school of teaching it is taken from. muslims also follow laws/government/ways of living/etc. from the example of muhammad. these are how muslim teachings/beliefs vary.

as far as oral tradition goes, i *believe* that mohammad's followers wrote everything down word for word right after he died.

can't answer definitively, since i'm no expert. could probably google it and find out thou. (my answer to every question is google it, lol)


Did you just like cut-n-past this? Because it's your exact same post from b4... As your still not understanding my question
smiles.gif


I understand the Qur'an isn't supposed to be translated... I understand it's the "exact" word of god.

My question was, and still is, since were not all using Qur'an's that were published thousands of years ago, how do modern Qur'an's that were recently pubished in arabic (just to be specific), compare to the, "hand written word for word copy" that mohammad's followers wrote down when he died.

And even if you think about that, since the Qur'an's teachings were not written down until after Muhammad died, they were written down from the "best memories" of his followers who were around at the time he died.

Have you ever tried to remember and write down something as a group? People argue over who said what, when they said it, and how they said it. So even if it's stated by the group that it was, "word for word" chances are because the people writing it down were human, that it's more than likeley the, "best idea of what they remembered."
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mena22787
i woulda slapped 'em all back. anywho, i don't *totally* understand the slapping point here. so are all muslims guilty by association? or are muslims more culpable than other people?

No, they're not, but I used the slapping analogy because it's an attack of violence. If a group of people is violent to you over and over again, you learn to distrust that group of people. Simply put.
Quote:
and for once more...pleaaaaaaaase don't say that these terrorist attacks were islamic or the terrorists muslim. i hope everyone knows that the qur'an preaches no violence whatsoever. i hope that everyone knows that 'allah' is just the arabic word for god. i hope everyone knows that christianity's god is the same as judaism's god is the same as islam's god. i can't stand it when ppl write in 'allah' as a replacement for god. it's the same darn person (or w/e one interprets god to be.) i hope that everyone knows that the qur'an tells muslims that christians and jews are their brothers (or sisters), that they are all people of the book, and all have the same rights.

There are Muslims, Christians, Jews, Mormons, and Scientologists would would argue vehemently that their ideas of "God" are all quite different from one another.
Quote:
would you call david koresh and the waco tx massacre christian people?? cuz i'm pretty sure they were out of their gourds and i'm pretty sure that the bible doesn't preach violence either. how are these not the same thing??????? unlike the media, you can't call these crazy suicide-bombers and terrorists muslims because they're not. these people, like koresh and co., distort the religion into something that goes against the religion's teachings.

They are the same thing, with one difference: there's not a repeated and wholly patterned theme of Waco TX massacres. There's not a pattern of Mormons acting as suicide bombers. Nor is there a pattern of Baptists attacking market places. The pattern is the difference. The consistent and seemingly never ending pattern of Muslim (or "muslim") attacks on civilians and military. That's the difference.
Quote:
you know, i thought in the US we taught that stereotyping was a baaaad thing.

Are all of those Muslim attacks?
Nope, none of them are islamic.
Are all of the perpetrators Islamic?
Nope again, none of them are muslims.
Are the majority of them?
Nope, they're all just dirtbags.


i recommend that you all take a course/read a book on islam to learn about it. i find its principles to be so selfless and 'humanitarianistic.' (this should be a word, it's a good word!) btw, i'm atheist. just an fyi.

Yes, they are islamic/muslim/dirtbags. Try telling Osama Bin Laden "You, sir, are no Muslim!!!", try telling that to ANY of them. Tell ANY of the followers of any regime claiming to be of Islamic faith that they're infidels. See how far it gets you.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
I always found that to be an interesting part of religion. If you dont believe my specific views, your not a "true _______ <----- Insert religion here." Pretty common across all religions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top