Middle Eastern Society

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona The teaching of Islam teach that any change to the Qur'an is a sin to God and is no longer the HOLY Qur'an.

Just, so you know, the Mormons teach the same thing about the Book of Mormon as Joseph Smith wrote it, and proclaim it to be the most perfect scripture in all time.

 

[Raerae]

Amoona, can i ask a very basic question.

Do you think women in the ME who dont cover, or "bend the rules" recieve the same level of respect, as those who cover more?

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona Then why is the entire ME culture being blamed for what you guys claim to be rural practices yet the US isn't blamed for their rural practices?!

We can start a thread on that too if you want. Plenty of stupid rural stuff goin on

 

[amoona]

I'm waiting for my train, playin on my sidekick soooo ... Raerae for the majority no I don't think they're less respect. I never cover my hair back home unless I'm entering Jerusalem, I cover my hair like many Christian and Jewish women do as well out of respect.

I'm never treated differently then my cousin who wears hijab. Now that's the majority everyday life. I'm not sayin that someone won't be pissed or disrespect me, it hasn't happened but who knows what everyone is thinking.

This thread was started to talk about ME society, what Shimmer keeps bringing up are bedouin tribes and their customs. Like I said Shimmer, I can't speak on bedouin life, its not ME culture and its far from the majority.

As for comparing Mormons to Muslims - that's hilarious lmao.

 

[Shimmer]

Bedouin tribes that are located in the ME. Bedouin tribes that are followers of Islam (or claim to be).

And, like I said, Mormons proclaim their holy book (the Book of Mormon) to be the most perfect scripture of all time, and the most holy word, (as do muslims theirs). There are actually many similarities between mormon and muslim fundamentalists.

 

[Dark_Phoenix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Amoona, can i ask a very basic question. Do you think women in the ME who dont cover, or "bend the rules" recieve the same level of respect, as those who cover more?

Let me answer this too since I've lived in the Arabian Peninsula, different from Palestine where Amoona's from.

I lived in Manama, Bahrain for close to a decade. We have a summer home in Shiraz, Iran and one of my brothers also lives in Iran.

Yes, we are respected by men to the same degree. However, I have been corrected to please dress more appropriately (although not in so many words) in more conservative areas, like near mosques. This usually happened when I forgot where I was in a city.

At school in Manama we did have a dress code. It consisted of the school uniform which had a headscarf, jumper (ankle length), dress shirt, and tights. After school most girls just wear jeans and regular western clothes to go clubbing, or during the day they observe traditional dress (ranging from the niqab to the shayla).

My brothers, five of six of them, are Muslim, three live in the Middle East including in Iran. They have never pressured me to dress traditionally, it's a choice.

I know that you'll say it's because we're urban, or western, or whatever. It's just not the norm to be extremely violent towards family and most of the Middle East is like you and me. They care about each other, and they want what's best for the family.

In Iran my sister-in-law, who did not wear a niqab like me, wore shaylas (they're like a headscarf, usually not as heavy) and dressed Western otherwise. She wasn't beaten or arrested. Were, however, wanred by police about our dress before entering one area of Tehran. That's it.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Bedouin tribes that are located in the ME. Bedouin tribes that are followers of Islam (or claim to be). And, like I said, Mormons proclaim their holy book (the Book of Mormon) to be the most perfect scripture of all time, and the most holy word, (as do muslims theirs). There are actually many similarities between mormon and muslim fundamentalists.

This thread was started to talk about ME society. Bedouin customers are not a part of the vast ME society. If you want to understand why Bedo people do what they do go talk to them. Bedo people segregate themselves from the rest of the ME society, and most of them who live in Arab countries do not claim to be Arab. Many of them who claim to be Muslim still follow their Bedo rituals and practices, something that is NOT Islamic.

As for Mormon, we are far from the same. Muslims claim the Qur'an is the holiest book to US, we believe it is the last book of God. We see the Torah and the Bible as holy books as well. We also recognize the people of the books (aka Jews and Christians) and respect their faiths and beliefs. We don't go on missions to recruit people into becoming Muslim. Forcing one to follow Islamic beliefs is a sin. That's why in the UAE non-Muslims can drink, party, and live their lives as they see fit.

And all fundamentalist are the same, no matter what religion.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma_Frost Let me answer this too since I've lived in the Arabian Peninsula, different from Palestine where Amoona's from.

I think thats also a big part of the differences of opinion in this thread, as due to the nature of the region, things can be drastically different depending on where you are, what country, what part of the country, etc.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona This thread was started to talk about ME society. Bedouin customers are not a part of the vast ME society. If you want to understand why Bedo people do what they do go talk to them. Bedo people segregate themselves from the rest of the ME society, and most of them who live in Arab countries do not claim to be Arab. Many of them who claim to be Muslim still follow their Bedo rituals and practices, something that is NOT Islamic.

Bedouin tribes are a part of ME society to the point that human rights groups consider the things they do prevalant enough that action must be taken. Their behaviours are not isolated incidents
Quote:

As for Mormon, we are far from the same. Muslims claim the Qur'an is the holiest book to US, we believe it is the last book of God. We see the Torah and the Bible as holy books as well. We also recognize the people of the books (aka Jews and Christians) and respect their faiths and beliefs. We don't go on missions to recruit people into becoming Muslim. Forcing one to follow Islamic beliefs is a sin. That's why in the UAE non-Muslims can drink, party, and live their lives as they see fit. And all fundamentalist are the same, no matter what religion.

I didn't say the two were the exact same, but there are actually some striking similarities...particularly on the fundamental side.

I believe you and I can agree, however, that fundamentalists are generally not worth the air they breath.

 

[mena22787]

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Originally Posted by Raerae Question~ Do you know whats the oldest "known" version of the Qur'an currently? And how reflective are the versions on the shelf of that text. I have a hard time believeing that any book as old as that, hasn't been changed. Even if it wasn't "translated" into a different language, the interpretation of words could (probably has) been changed to strengthen the beliefs of the currently group in control. Not to mention, much of this probably started off as oral tradition, and we know how things change when the telephone game is played.

actually, muslims believe that the qur'an is the exact words of god as told through the prophet mohammad. since it was told to mohammad directly by god in arabic, it is not supposed to be translated into other languages. (it's ok, to supplement your understanding in another language, but reading it in arabic actually encourages learning arabic as a second language. it also means that all muslims should be educated so that they themselves can read the exact words of god, since there are no mediums b/t a muslim and god).

however, interpretation of the qur'an is different depending on what school of teaching it is taken from. muslims also follow laws/government/ways of living/etc. from the example of muhammad. these are how muslim teachings/beliefs vary.

as far as oral tradition goes, i *believe* that mohammad's followers wrote everything down word for word right after he died.

 

[mena22787]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Amoona, can i ask a very basic question. Do you think women in the ME who dont cover, or "bend the rules" recieve the same level of respect, as those who cover more?

you didn't ask me but i'm giving my opinion anyways [insert smiley w/ tongue sticking out, i couldn't find it!!]

it all depends on who you talk to, where you go, what age they are, thier beliefs, etc. certainly conservatives would say 'yes, women who are not wearing the full hijab are disgraceful' then you talk to liberals/younger generations who would say 'these women are asserting their god-given rights, good for them'

you can't group all MEs together. or all ME culture. what i would just like everyone to understand is instead of criticizing on another culture w/o understanding it, look at your own and try to find similarities.

for example, i've told my friends how in some african cultures, they cut small slits in their skin, and rub dirt and saliva on the wound, producing a kind of bubble on their skin. stop. what's your first reaction to this? are you skeeved out and think they're weird? or that they're crazy for doing this? you shouldn't. don't we do tattoos? cuz that's what they're doing.

 

[mena22787]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma_Frost We have a summer home in Shiraz, Iran and one of my brothers also lives in Iran.

my dad's from shiraz!! we're beginning to plan on going to iran next summer, if the US doesn't go crazy on their butts.

 

[mena22787]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer You know what, you're right. Our mistake. We silly westerners have no concept of what we're talking about. What could we be thinking???? After all we're obviously completely off base. Our bad.

question: what is this referring to? i'm a little lost as to what all these links to honor killing links have to do w/ middle eastern society?

you can't categorize an entire region of the globe like this. honor killings don't have anything to do w/ islam. they're done all around the globe, media just decides to put it all on the ME cuz media sucks. anyways, it's pretty much only done in rural areas where traditional customs are intact and the people are conservative. really conservative.

i'm kind of offended and scared that when people think of the ME, they think of this.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mena22787 question: what is this referring to? i'm a little lost as to what all these links to honor killing links have to do w/ middle eastern society? you can't categorize an entire region of the globe like this. honor killings don't have anything to do w/ islam. they're done all around the globe, media just decides to put it all on the ME cuz media sucks. anyways, it's pretty much only done in rural areas where traditional customs are intact and the people are conservative. really conservative. i'm kind of offended and scared that when people think of the ME, they think of this.

I chose honor killings specifically because all of the links I posted regarding honor killings link the killings to being invoked in the name of Islam.
Worldwide, women are killed for 'dishonoring' their families through real or imaginary acts of 'disrespect'.

I posted those links because I question how a religion can be claimed to honor women, respect them, and place them on a pedestal, yet worldwide (as you said), in the name of Islam, women are brutally murdered.

 

[mena22787]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer I chose honor killings specifically because all of the links I posted regarding honor killings link the killings to being invoked in the name of Islam. Worldwide, women are killed for 'dishonoring' their families through real or imaginary acts of 'disrespect'. I posted those links because I question how a religion can be claimed to honor women, respect them, and place them on a pedestal, yet worldwide (as you said), in the name of Islam, women are brutally murdered.

ok, you really have to understand that these people who do honor killings in the name of islam are not true muslims. just like those crazy ppl who went to south america and all committed suicide in the name of chrisitianity and jesus. they're not true christians.

again, honor killings are not a teaching of islam. please learn this. honor killings are some stupid cultural idea that VERY FEW people around the world practice.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mena22787 ok, you really have to understand that these people who do honor killings in the name of islam are not true muslims. just like those crazy ppl who went to south america and all committed suicide in the name of chrisitianity and jesus. they're not true christians. again, honor killings are not a teaching of islam. please learn this. honor killings are some stupid cultural idea that VERY FEW people around the world practice.

That's fair. That's the answer I was looking for.

 

[Macnarsandlove]

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Originally Posted by amoona FYI I don't hate America, I hate the government in this country, I hate the way this country's government interfers with my country, I hate that my tax dollars go to killing my own people, I HATE the way Middle Eastern people and Muslims are treated in this country after 9/11.

I have been reading this post and I am very interested to see different opinions from everyone that has posted. This comment more than anything has bothered me more than the others. Now it's time to list:
1. Amoona, just to let you know your tax dollars pay my salary and support my family. THANKS!!
2. They also go towards in a round-about way killing my "people". I don't know how many military ppl you know but most just want to make a living and get an education. We all take an oath to support and defend the US. Nobody likes war except the ppl that dont have to fight it.
3. If you dont like it here than why dont you do something about it or go back to your country. If you dont like the way America does things instead of whining about it make a difference.
4.9/11 was horrible and I can say it personally changed my life. NO minority group deserves to be generalized based on a few ppls actions.
5. ME and mulism ppl do things different than here. As long as ppl can resepect that it would help relations.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smith130 I have been reading this post and I am very interested to see different opinions from everyone that has posted. This comment more than anything has bothered me more than the others. Now it's time to list: 1. Amoona, just to let you know your tax dollars pay my salary and support my family. THANKS!! 2. They also go towards in a round-about way killing my "people". I don't know how many military ppl you know but most just want to make a living and get an education. We all take an oath to support and defend the US. Nobody likes war except the ppl that dont have to fight it. 3. If you dont like it here than why dont you do something about it or go back to your country. If you dont like the way America does things instead of whining about it make a difference. 4.9/11 was horrible and I can say it personally changed my life. NO minority group deserves to be generalized based on a few ppls actions. 5. ME and mulism ppl do things different than here. As long as ppl can resepect that it would help relations.

And THAT whole "go back to your country" crap is why I have issues living in America POST-9/11. Hmmm ... I thought everyone liked to brag about how America is a free country yet I can't voice my complaints about the treatment ME people and Muslim people recieve after 9/11?! Interesting ...

 

[Dark_Phoenix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smith130 2. They also go towards in a round-about way killing my "people". I don't know how many military ppl you know but most just want to make a living and get an education. We all take an oath to support and defend the US. Nobody likes war except the ppl that dont have to fight it.

I think she meant the US support of Israel in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. They've paid for many of the weapons and technology that Israel uses to supress the Palestinian state.

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3. If you dont like it here than why dont you do something about it or go back to your country. If you dont like the way America does things instead of whining about it make a difference.

The fabulous thing about America is you can whine about it in mass numbers in order to make a difference. Or at the very least say something's wrong so people don't assume everything's alright.

I don't like the US policy towards Israel or how it's been specifically profiling Arabs in airports but there's not much I can do. I'm a dual citizen with the United States, Italy and Bahrain (Bahraini mother, Italian father, born in NY when both had a permanent residency) so I can't exactly go back to my own country

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4.9/11 was horrible and I can say it personally changed my life. NO minority group deserves to be generalized based on a few ppls actions.

It's nice you think it but the FAA doesn't. Local police don't. When they've been instructed to pull over "suspicious" Middle Easterners and the US government justifies it as profiling there's something seriously wrong. Like why can't we have a fully secure nation instead of hassling only this ethnic group?

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5. ME and mulism ppl do things different than here. As long as ppl can resepect that it would help relations.

Yeah... I just wish we could understand each others cultures more. That everything we see on CNN and read online isn't the entire picture. Neither the Western nor the Middle Eastern cultures are backwards, just different.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smith130 just to let you know your tax dollars pay my salary and support my family. THANKS!!

Are you AD?