Middle Eastern Society

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Shimmer

Well-known member
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Originally Posted by mena22787
oh dear, more American media here to blame. are you sure that Muslim communities don't speak out against these attacks? or are you just assuming that b/c media doesn't show you that??

Muslims in the US and the ME, both loudly express their outrage and anger of terrorist attacks and do not tolerate such things. their religion teaches peace, so why would they condone such things?

why should only Muslim communities reach out and change other's perceptions of Muslims? seems to me like it would make them seem guilty. everyone should help change these perceptions. and i wasn't aware that the whole Muslim community was screaming about the unfairness of profiling at airports.


I'm not worried about the media walking into a courtyard and detonating a bomb.
I'm not worried about Ted Koppel attacking me. Ted Koppel hasn't ever done shyte to me. Neither has Anderson Cooper, Mike Wallace, or Meredith Viera.
They've never attacked American civilians, they've never incited riots, they've never discharged a weapon in the midst of a crowd, they've never strapped bombs onto a nine year old and shoved him into a marketplace.
I will agree that good stories don't get ratings. They don't sell. But...

By the same token, the moderate Muslims of the world need to bring their voice above the cacophony of the riots, beheadings, bombings, hijackings, mortarings, honor killings, executions, jihads, calls for jihads, etc.

To say that a HUGE number of the people professing to follow the faith are not that faith, when indeed, the numbers were really revealed across the world with the Dutch cartoon debacle as to how many Muslims will rise to violence, and call for death and send death threats and incite riots and create mayhem etc. is somewhat unfathomable to me.

We're not talking about factions that are relatively small compared to the overall picture here...we're not talking about the Westboro Baptist Church in comparison to Christianity, we're not talking about Waco in comparison to Christianity, we're not talking about Warren Jeffs in comparison to Mormonism...those, and the groups like them, are a very very small sampling of people claiming to be Christian, in comparison to the worldwide and overwhelmingly high faction of people claiming to be Muslim and commiting violent acts.

Are all Muslims gun carrying bomb wearing maniacs? OF COURSE NOT. And, I never said they were.

Why should Muslims attempt to change the perception? Because until they do, that's all the rest of the world has. All the rest of the world has is images of violence, fires, beheadings, and terrorist acts. Because until the moderate Muslims work, hard, to change that perception, the rest of the world has NOTHING ELSE to go off of.
 

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
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why should only muslim communities reach out and change other's perceptions of muslims?

Because it's an unfortunate part of being a part of any minority group. It isn't just your community. Black people, Asians, Jews, Hispanics, gays, and so on. Republicans on certain college campuses have to do it, and a bunch of other groups I'm forgetting.

I'd argue Americans abroad (the ones who don't agree with this president's policies) do it nowadays.
 

rita

New member
"muslims in the US and the ME, both loudly express their outrage and anger of terrorist attacks and do not tolerate such things. their religion teaches peace, so why would they condone such things?" ( as posted by mena 22787 )


i am sorry to barge in like this (ashamed to admit i'm not a very contributing member), however;
i'm an Israeli (an atheist, and that is probably why there's not much i could contribute to this thread), and as one i must strongly disagree! "loudly express their outrage"?! the suiside bombers are considered to be martyrs and holy. outrage, anger, shame, regret non of these discribe how this terrorists are viewd by the Palestinians: to the mass poor ppl they are heros, strong and holy and are the pride and joy of there famelies (who are Islamic)
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauty Mark
I'd argue Americans abroad (the ones who don't agree with this president's policies) do it nowadays.

It's been like this since b4 9-11 as well.

If you haven't done a down to earth trip to Europe, or some other part of the world, your really missing out on a very real point of view. And when I mean down to earth, I dont mean sleeping in a fancy hotel and eating in fancy restaraunts and the like.

I mean sleeping on hostels, with people from around the globe. I mean camping out overnight at train stations, sleeping on a towel/bedpad on the concrete with the other world travelers trying to save money etc. You get a very real opinion on America, from other "regular" people, and not by the people paid to kiss your ass at expensive hotels/restaraunts/shops.

Americans have had a pretty bad global image for quite a while. Sadly.
 

mena22787

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by rita
"muslims in the US and the ME, both loudly express their outrage and anger of terrorist attacks and do not tolerate such things. their religion teaches peace, so why would they condone such things?" ( as posted by mena 22787 )


i am sorry to barge in like this (ashamed to admit i'm not a very contributing member), however;
i'm an Israeli (an atheist, and that is probably why there's not much i could contribute to this thread), and as one i must strongly disagree! "loudly express their outrage"?! the suiside bombers are considered to be martyrs and holy. outrage, anger, shame, regret non of these discribe how this terrorists are viewd by the Palestinians: to the mass poor ppl they are heros, strong and holy and are the pride and joy of there famelies (who are Islamic)


and what about your country?
 

mena22787

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
Americans have had a pretty bad global image for quite a while. Sadly.

we still do, and i don't blame the rest of the world. i'm fine w/ them not liking the gov, but some of them blame american citizens too, which isn't fair.
 

*Stargazer*

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
Americans have had a pretty bad global image for quite a while. Sadly.

People are damn quick to jump when we offer aid for humanitarian purposes, though. I always find it fascinating to hear from foreigners how evil Americans are despite the fact that our charitable efforts are global. Some people just can't be pleased.
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mena22787
we still do, and i don't blame the rest of the world. i'm fine w/ them not liking the gov, but some of them blame american citizens too, which isn't fair.

Why not? Don't American voters elect their government into office?
 

Dark_Phoenix

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
It's been like this since b4 9-11 as well.

If you haven't done a down to earth trip to Europe, or some other part of the world, your really missing out on a very real point of view. And when I mean down to earth, I dont mean sleeping in a fancy hotel and eating in fancy restaraunts and the like.


But omg are some of the big ones amazing! The Barj al-Arab in Dubai, UAE is spectacular; it's shaped like a giant sailboat, and is the world's tallest hotel. Anyways, there's better ways to meet people than hotels, like market shopping and just walking instead of using cabs (the traffic in the Middle East is terrible everywhere).

And I agree that eating cheap is sometimes a good idea. Except I'm a complete loser and if I'm iffy about local cuisine I just go to a Lebanese or Chinese resturaunt :p Just avoid friggen Mickey-D's.

Quote:
Americans have had a pretty bad global image for quite a while. Sadly.

You would be so suprised. It's not Americans that have a bad image, it's the US government. People I've talked to usually just think that the US policy is unjust, or tyrannical, etc.. And you'll get the usual banter about how bad the US policy is. I don't encourge in-depth discussion of politics in the Middle East; it can be dangerous for anyone (men and women), especially in cabs.
 

amoona

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by rita
"muslims in the US and the ME, both loudly express their outrage and anger of terrorist attacks and do not tolerate such things. their religion teaches peace, so why would they condone such things?" ( as posted by mena 22787 )


i am sorry to barge in like this (ashamed to admit i'm not a very contributing member), however;
i'm an Israeli (an atheist, and that is probably why there's not much i could contribute to this thread), and as one i must strongly disagree! "loudly express their outrage"?! the suiside bombers are considered to be martyrs and holy. outrage, anger, shame, regret non of these discribe how this terrorists are viewd by the Palestinians: to the mass poor ppl they are heros, strong and holy and are the pride and joy of there famelies (who are Islamic)



That's a totally different issue. What do you expect us to do?! We've been occupied by a foriegn force for nearly 60 years, our basic human rights are ignored ... we STILL aren't being given the right to return, wer're treated as third class citizens on our own land! When people are desperate they take desperate measures. Yes suiciding bombings are considered a sin in Islam but I understand why it is done in Palestine. Rocks don't do much against a billion dollar military tank.

Please don't act like Israel is innocent, Palestinian suicide bombers aren't born that way. They're turned into suicide bombers by Israeli oppression. Live the life of a Palestinian in the West Bank or Gaza or one of our many refugee camps and tell me you'll turn out to be a happy go lucky kid. Many Palestinian children living in Gaza suffer mental issues because of the horrors they live thanks to Israel.

If someone were to walk into your home, take away your things, kill your family members and send you to live the rest of your life on the front lawn and then deny your existance or right to return to that home that is rightfully yours ... you're going to tell me you guys will become best friends?!
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by amoona
That's a totally different issue. What do you expect us to do?! We've been occupied by a foriegn force for nearly 60 years, our basic human rights are ignored ... we STILL aren't being given the right to return, wer're treated as third class citizens on our own land! When people are desperate they take desperate measures. Yes suiciding bombings are considered a sin in Islam but I understand why it is done in Palestine. Rocks don't do much against a billion dollar military tank.

Please don't act like Israel is innocent, Palestinian suicide bombers aren't born that way. They're turned into suicide bombers by Israeli oppression. Live the life of a Palestinian in the West Bank or Gaza or one of our many refugee camps and tell me you'll turn out to be a happy go lucky kid. Many Palestinian children living in Gaza suffer mental issues because of the horrors they live thanks to Israel.

If someone were to walk into your home, take away your things, kill your family members and send you to live the rest of your life on the front lawn and then deny your existance or right to return to that home that is rightfully yours ... you're going to tell me you guys will become best friends?!


You act like you've expierenced any of this first hand...

Kinda hard to claim outrage from the horrid expierence living in San Francisco all your life had been ;p
 

mena22787

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
Why not? Don't American voters elect their government into office?


i'm sorry, what? as far as i know, i don't know any american that's voted for a president of another country.

anyways, i'm done w/ this discussion. mainly b/c i have waaay to much other crap to deal w/ (hw), b/c there's no point in trying to help ppl understand their faulty ways of thinking, esp. when their info comes from US media, and b/c it's too damn frustrating.

if u seriously wanna discuss more w/ me, you can always pm me. other than that, i'm out.
 

Dark_Phoenix

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
To say that a HUGE number of the people professing to follow the faith are not that faith, when indeed, the numbers were really revealed across the world with the Dutch cartoon debacle as to how many Muslims will rise to violence, and call for death and send death threats and incite riots and create mayhem etc. is somewhat unfathomable to me.

We're not talking about factions that are relatively small compared to the overall picture here...we're not talking about the Westboro Baptist Church in comparison to Christianity, we're not talking about Waco in comparison to Christianity, we're not talking about Warren Jeffs in comparison to Mormonism...those, and the groups like them, are a very very small sampling of people claiming to be Christian, in comparison to the worldwide and overwhelmingly high faction of people claiming to be Muslim and commiting violent acts.


You have no idea how many Muslim and Middle Eastern groups are considered to be terrorist organizations. MSA's (Muslim Student Association) and different anti-violence, pro-Palestine organizations are not listened to because they're considered to be supporting terrorists. And this is just because they're against the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian Terrritories.

Our schools' Middle Eastern Heritage Club has had it's records supinad by the court after we participated in a protest in '06 against US involvement in the Middle East. Trust me, we speak out but are silenced by the prejudices that no matter what we still bear too much resemblance to the terrorists for the US government to be comfortable with allowing our protests.
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mena22787
i'm sorry, what? as far as i know, i don't know any american that's voted for a president of another country.

anyways, i'm done w/ this discussion. mainly b/c i have waaay to much other crap to deal w/ (hw), b/c there's no point in trying to help ppl understand their faulty ways of thinking, esp. when their info comes from US media, and b/c it's too damn frustrating.

if u seriously wanna discuss more w/ me, you can always pm me. other than that, i'm out.


I asked why it's not fair to be angry at the American people. We, as a nation, elect our officials. Our officials act on our behalf within local, state, federal, and international governments.
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma_Frost
You have no idea how many Muslim and Middle Eastern groups are considered to be terrorist organizations. MSA's (Muslim Student Association) and different anti-violence, pro-Palestine organizations are not listened to because they're considered to be supporting terrorists. And this is just because they're against the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian Terrritories.

Our schools' Middle Eastern Heritage Club has had it's records supinad by the court after we participated in a protest in '06 against US involvement in the Middle East. Trust me, we speak out but are silenced by the prejudices that no matter what we still bear too much resemblance to the terrorists for the US government to be comfortable with allowing our protests.


It could be because of "protests" like what happened in February of last year.


ETA: In this case there's no winning. Had they not subpoena'd your information and one of y'all gone off and blew a building in half, it would have been "Why didn't anyone see this coming?" "Why didn't they get investigated prior to it escalating?"
 

Dark_Phoenix

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
It could be because of "protests" like what happened in February of last year.


ETA: In this case there's no winning. Had they not subpoena'd your information and one of y'all gone off and blew a building in half, it would have been "Why didn't anyone see this coming?" "Why didn't they get investigated prior to it escalating?"


We're a group of 13-18 year old girls with no ties to Middle Eastern organizations, purely autononomous. They took member lists, meeting notes, activity records, even editorials we've submitted to papers over the years.

I just think it's unjust, but once again, it doesn't matter does it? Because no matter what our club is made up of primarily Middle Eastern girls and therefore we're suspicious.
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma_Frost
We're a group of 13-18 year old girls with no ties to Middle Eastern organizations, purely autononomous. They took member lists, meeting notes, activity records, even editorials we've submitted to papers over the years.

I just think it's unjust, but once again, it doesn't matter does it? Because no matter what our club is made up of primarily Middle Eastern girls and therefore we're suspicious.


Seriously, there's no winning this one....because had the 'just a group of middle eastern girls' gone unnoticed, and then somehow, some way, something happened, then there are questions that have to be answered.
Why weren't their activities checked?
Who allowed this?
etc.

You think you're the only one profiled? Seriously? Check with the Kingsmen and find out about how they were investigated, or Marilyn Monroe's estate about how she was investigated (though perhaps that's a bit more understandable as she had ties to the president...), or Elvis because his hips were so scandalous.
 

amoona

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
You act like you've expierenced any of this first hand...

Kinda hard to claim outrage from the horrid expierence living in San Francisco all your life had been ;p


Who are you to tell me about my expierences?! I haven't live in SF all my life, like I've said many times before I've lived between here n the ME throughout my life, and even 6 months in Brazil.

I HAVE experienced Israeli oppression first hand.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma_Frost
Our schools' Middle Eastern Heritage Club has had it's records supinad by the court after we participated in a protest in '06 against US involvement in the Middle East. Trust me, we speak out but are silenced by the prejudices that no matter what we still bear too much resemblance to the terrorists for the US government to be comfortable with allowing our protests.

And your suprised by that? The fact that you were allowed to protest at all, shows the tolerance of this govt. However, your protesting the current policies of the Government, so of course they are going to watch you. All groups that activly take place in protests against the establishment are probably put on a watch list. Your allowed the protest the govt, and they govt is allowed to watch you. In no way shape or form were you silenced. You were ALLOWED to protest.

Chances are, had you protested against suicide bombing, senseless death, and terrorism, the govt wouldn't have bothered. But any group thats anti govt policies is watched. Because history shows that chances are, someone somewhere in some group, is planning something. Be it your Middle Eastern Heritage Group, or PETA.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma_Frost
We're a group of 13-18 year old girls with no ties to Middle Eastern organizations, purely autononomous. They took member lists, meeting notes, activity records, even editorials we've submitted to papers over the years.

I just think it's unjust, but once again, it doesn't matter does it? Because no matter what our club is made up of primarily Middle Eastern girls and therefore we're suspicious.


They do that to all organizations that are politically active. The govt has a right to check out your clubs background. it's not illegal.
 
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