Middle Eastern Society

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona Who are you to tell me about my expierences?! I haven't live in SF all my life, like I've said many times before I've lived between here n the ME throughout my life, and even 6 months in Brazil. I HAVE experienced Israeli oppression first hand.

Oh my bad, all your life minus 6 months in Brazil, and a few trips to visit relatives under the nice cozy blanket that if anything bad were to happen, you could just call the U.S. Embassy, and have the full support of the United States Government to secure your safe return.

Pardon me for questioning the authenticity of your expierence. I forgot, all refugee's have the peace of mind that regardless of what they "say they are" they still have a U.S. passport.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Oh my bad, all your life minus 6 months in Brazil, and a few trips to visit relatives under the nice cozy blanket that if anything bad were to happen, you could just call the U.S. Embassy, and have the full support of the United States Government to secure your safe return. Pardon me for questioning the authenticity of your expierence. I forgot, all refugee's have the peace of mind that regardless of what they "say they are" they still have a U.S. passport.

Lmao ok so we can pretend that I said I ONLY visit family there. Since you know more about my life then I do. I guess me living in the ME counts as a few trips to visit relatives. Damn I had a pretty long vacation.

And what I've experienced first had from the IDF also doesn't count because according to you that doesn't count. Everything I've seen with my own two eyes and lived doesn't count either.

Silly me for thinking that since this is my life I'd know more about it then you.

 

[Shimmer]

I'm confused.
You're an American citizen. Natural born, bonafide for real American citizen...You're younger than I am (iirc), you've verbalized before that you and your parents can't 'go home' and that your parents gave it all up for you to be raised in the US and be safe and they can't 'go back' because they're not allowed to, for whatever reason...
Sometime during your lifetime you've lived in various places all over the middle east, plus in Brazil, plus living and being raised in the US...
I'm kind of confused.

 

[Trunkmonkey]

Taken from another board but if you're wondering why a lot of people think terrorist when they hear Islam here's a good example.


Hi All,

I'm posting the following as an appeal to the Christians in the community who pray, because the tiny (less than 0.2%) Christian population in Turkey desperately needs your prayers. Of late a wave of Islamic extremism has been rolling through that country, and Jihadis are becoming more and more active in their efforts to eliminate all Christian witness in that country. National feeling has turned decidedly against them, and pastors I know are saying simply holding church services on Sunday or finding a place to worship is becoming increasingly difficult.

With the shootings at VA Tech understandably grabbing the headlines, most people missed the story of the brutal torture and slaying of three Christians at a bible publishing house (1 German and 2 Turks) by Jihadis in Malatya, Turkey. But it has shaken the Christian community there to the core. I'm posting the following email I received from Fikret Bocek, a Turkish fellow Pastor who graduated from the sister seminary of the one I went to. While I've never met him personally, we have a lot of friends in common.

I'd urge those members of the board who refuse to believe there is a worldwide Jihad going on, or who feel that Islam and Christianity are "equally bad" to please not read the following, I'm posting it simply to encourage prayer. Unlike the Jihadis who brutally tortured and killed his friends, Fikret does not hate these Jihadis, nor does he want revenge: In fact this is the core of his request:
quote:
Please pray for the Church of Christ in Turkey. Don't pray against persecution, pray for perseverence. ... Pray that we stand strong against external opposition and especially pray that we stand strong against internal struggles with sin, our true weakness.
...
But we pray- and urge you to pray- that someday one of those five boys will come to faith because of the testimony in death of Tilman Geske, who gave his life as a missionary to the beloved Turks...


I've removed the descriptions of the torture of these men for the sake of the BB and young eyes, an Agence France Presse article should explain why: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article...rticle_id=81616

The article is graphic and disturbing.

I know you missed me didn't you?

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer I'm confused. You're an American citizen. Natural born, bonafide for real American citizen...You're younger than I am (iirc), you've verbalized before that you and your parents can't 'go home' and that your parents gave it all up for you to be raised in the US and be safe and they can't 'go back' because they're not allowed to, for whatever reason... Sometime during your lifetime you've lived in various places all over the middle east, plus in Brazil, plus living and being raised in the US... I'm kind of confused.

Yeh it's a hard life being a refugee. You get to live in IMHO one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Have a college education. A sidekick with mobile internet access. Enough money to be a frequent world traveler.

It's a hard life, it really is.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Yeh it's a hard life being a refugee. You get to live in IMHO one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Have a college education. A sidekick with mobile internet access. Enough money to be a frequent world traveler. It's a hard life, it really is.

I'm not trying to ridicule anyone, or belittle their life experience at all, I'm just confused as to how so much is accomplished in relatively short time that seems so contradictory.

If I did miss something, I would sincerely appreciate clarification.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trunkmonkey I know you missed me didn't you?

I certainly did.

 

[Dark_Phoenix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trunkmonkey Taken from another board but if you're wondering why a lot of people think terrorist when they hear Islam here's a good example. (...) I've removed the descriptions of the torture of these men for the sake of the BB and young eyes, an Agence France Presse article should explain why: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article...rticle_id=81616 The article is graphic and disturbing. [/color][/font][/color][/font]

Americans think of Christians being attacked? I'm confused.

There are MILLIONS of Coptic Chrisitans (or Egyptian Orthodox) in Egypt, and in countries around the Persian Gulf Christians make up about 5% of the population. Many are expatriates, like myself, from Europe or the US. Christians and Muslims get along suprisingly well in most countries. Okay, just wanted to put that out there. My family's Catholic (except for some my brothers who converted to Islam in secondary school) and we've never had any issues related to violence in Bahrain or Jordan.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona That's a totally different issue. What do you expect us to do?! We've been occupied by a foreign force for nearly 60 years, our basic human rights are ignored ... we STILL aren't being given the right to return, we're treated as third class citizens on our own land! When people are desperate they take desperate measures. Yes suiciding bombings are considered a sin in Islam but I understand why it is done in Palestine. Rocks don't do much against a billion dollar military tank. Please don't act like Israel is innocent, Palestinian suicide bombers aren't born that way. They're turned into suicide bombers by Israeli oppression. Live the life of a Palestinian in the West Bank or Gaza or one of our many refugee camps and tell me you'll turn out to be a happy go lucky kid. Many Palestinian children living in Gaza suffer mental issues because of the horrors they live thanks to Israel. If someone were to walk into your home, take away your things, kill your family members and send you to live the rest of your life on the front lawn and then deny your existence or right to return to that home that is rightfully yours ... you're going to tell me you guys will become best friends?!

There is no "we" here, there's a "they".
YOU have never been denied ANYTHING.
YOU saying YOU can't 'go back' anywhere is a non-statement because you've never been where you can't go back (other than a visit, if that)...you haven't had anything taken away from you.
You haven't lost out on ANYTHING. Anything at all. None of your belongings were taken away. None of your personal effects were stolen. You weren't traumatized by soldiers doing anything to you. You were born in the United States of America.

Your indignation, while admirable, is something that is misplaced. Should the things be happening that are happening? Perhaps, perhaps not. Either way, it didn't happen to you.
So, please, drop the 'we' and 'us' statements, because 'you' weren't there, you didn't go through it, and you're not a victim.

You claim that land as your birthright?
That's as ludicrous a statement as me walking up to the State Capital building in Georgia and demanding I have MY land returned because BY GOD I'm CHEROKEE AND MY ANCESTORS WERE FORCIBLY MARCHED FROM THIS LAND BY THE WHITE MAN IN THE TRAIL OF TEARS so pony up Governor. Your ancestors were displaced. Mine were too. Mine were forced to march across what are now five states in a long ass line and over 4000 died.

I have as much right to the land in Georgia as you have to anything in Palestine....none whatsoever.


This is NOT a personal attack, not even close, but it's a dose of reality. Normally, you've got great information and a really interesting and honest perspective to share, however, on this, we disagree, perhaps vehemently.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer I asked why it's not fair to be angry at the American people. We, as a nation, elect our officials. Our officials act on our behalf within local, state, federal, and international governments.

I've had discussions with foreign people who do blame the US population at large for what happens, because we have the power. We're not assigned a leader, we choose our people. It's cheesy but true.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer I'm confused. You're an American citizen. Natural born, bonafide for real American citizen...You're younger than I am (iirc), you've verbalized before that you and your parents can't 'go home' and that your parents gave it all up for you to be raised in the US and be safe and they can't 'go back' because they're not allowed to, for whatever reason... Sometime during your lifetime you've lived in various places all over the middle east, plus in Brazil, plus living and being raised in the US... I'm kind of confused.

I was born here n then went to Brazil with my mother. We then left there to live in Kuwait with my father n his family, then we left Kuwait during the Gulf War n came back here, my brother was born and we were here while my parents got divoriced. My father went to Egypt we went to Jordan and lived there until I was about 12ish or so ... it may have be 13 but it was before high school. Then we came back here n I went to high school here n I'm now finishing school here.

Every summer (except last year n maybe this year) we go to Palestine and stay for about 3 months. We can not live there as perm residents because I wasn't born there.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona I was born here n then went to Brazil with my mother. We then left there to live in Kuwait with my father n his family, then we left Kuwait during the Gulf War n came back here, my brother was born and we were here while my parents got divoriced. My father went to Egypt we went to Jordan and lived there until I was about 12ish or so ... it may have be 13 but it was before high school. Then we came back here n I went to high school here n I'm now finishing school here. Every summer (except last year n maybe this year) we go to Palestine and stay for about 3 months. We can not live there as perm residents because I wasn't born there.

Sweetie, you have traveled more in your very short two decades than most people travel in a lifetime.
You really really don't have anything to complain about.
Had you been born and raised in Palestine, it's highly unlikely you would have had the same luxuries.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer There is no "we" here, there's a "they". YOU have never been denied ANYTHING. YOU saying YOU can't 'go back' anywhere is a non-statement because you've never been where you can't go back (other than a visit, if that)...you haven't had anything taken away from you. You haven't lost out on ANYTHING. Anything at all. None of your belongings were taken away. None of your personal effects were stolen. You weren't traumatized by soldiers doing anything to you. You were born in the United States of America. Your indignation, while admirable, is something that is misplaced. Should the things be happening that are happening? Perhaps, perhaps not. Either way, it didn't happen to you. So, please, drop the 'we' and 'us' statements, because 'you' weren't there, you didn't go through it, and you're not a victim. You claim that land as your birthright? That's as ludicrous a statement as me walking up to the State Capital building in Georgia and demanding I have MY land returned because BY GOD I'm CHEROKEE AND MY ANCESTORS WERE FORCIBLY MARCHED FROM THIS LAND BY THE WHITE MAN IN THE TRAIL OF TEARS so pony up Governor. Your ancestors were displaced. Mine were too. Mine were forced to march across what are now five states in a long ass line and over 4000 died. I have as much right to the land in Georgia as you have to anything in Palestine....none whatsoever. This is NOT a personal attack, not even close, but it's a dose of reality. Normally, you've got great information and a really interesting and honest perspective to share, however, on this, we disagree, perhaps vehemently.

Its your reality. I have had something taken away from me, I've had family members lives taken from me as well as my right to live a normal life in my country of Palestine. I do not hide who I am, I am Palestine and no matter where I am born I am still Palestine. My heritage will not be denied by me.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer That's as ludicrous a statement as me walking up to the State Capital building in Georgia and demanding I have MY land returned because BY GOD I'm CHEROKEE AND MY ANCESTORS WERE FORCIBLY MARCHED FROM THIS LAND BY THE WHITE MAN IN THE TRAIL OF TEARS so pony up Governor. Your ancestors were displaced. Mine were too. Mine were forced to march across what are now five states in a long ass line and over 4000 died.

But Shimmer, it's so much more fun to be a martyr than it is to actually accept that life sucks ass sometimes and move on, abandoning bitterness.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Sweetie, you have traveled more in your very short two decades than most people travel in a lifetime. You really really don't have anything to complain about. Had you been born and raised in Palestine, it's highly unlikely you would have had the same luxuries.

And that's where we see differently. To my the greatest luxury in life would be to be able to live in Palestine without illegal Israeli rule for the rest of my life.

 

[Trunkmonkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma_Frost Americans think of Christians being attacked? I'm confused. There are MILLIONS of Coptic Chrisitans (or Egyptian Orthodox) in Egypt, and in countries around the Persian Gulf Christians make up about 5% of the population. Many are expatriates, like myself, from Europe or the US. Christians and Muslims get along suprisingly well in most countries. Okay, just wanted to put that out there. My family's Catholic (except for some my brothers who converted to Islam in secondary school) and we've never had any issues related to violence in Bahrain or Jordan.

The point is that a group of young Islamic men tortured and mutilated 3 Christian missionaries. When this is embraced and even applauded by the vocal majority of said religion people shouldn't be all shocked and shaken when they are viewed with suspicion.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona Its your reality. I have had something taken away from me, I've had family members lives taken from me as well as my right to live a normal life in my country of Palestine. I do not hide who I am, I am Palestine and no matter where I am born I am still Palestine. My heritage will not be denied by me.

You're an American. You were born in America. Your citizenship is American.
Your lineage is Palestinian.
You have lost nothing (family members exempted from this statement) as far as material possessions go.
You've lost no opportunities.
You've lost out on nothing.
You don't live an abnormal life now, as a matter of fact you've lived a pretty upscale one. You haven't lost or been denied anything except something someone told you was important. Someone somewhere has convinced you that life would have been better had you been able to live in Palestine your whole life. You don't know that, but your life right now as you sit is NOT a bad life. You certainly have no rights to complaint.
As I said, your indignation, though admirable, is displaced, because in all reality, whether you like it or not, you haven't lost anything.

Your ancestors were forcibly removed? Hey! SO WERE MINE.
Your ancestors were shot, their belongings looted, displaced in the middle of the night by armed soldiers? HEY! MINE TOO!

NEITHER of us has a right to something that was never ours anyway. That, like it or not, is immutable reality.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona I do not hide who I am, I am Palestine and no matter where I am born I am still Palestine. My heritage will not be denied by me.

I really do wish that the epzp "free American Citizenship" card thats given to every baby born in the states, regardless of citizenship of the parents would be changed. And that at least one of the parents had to have citizenship to have the child be an America.

It really amazes me how much for granted people who were "born here against their will" take for granted their citizenship. And you wonder why immigration is such a hot topic right now.

I still dont understand Amoona... Why dont you contact Hamas in Palestine, and go through the proper channels to apply for Palestinian citizenship if your so intent on getting your heritage back. Heaven forbid you do that before you take advantage of everything America has to offer.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladybug10678 But Shimmer, it's so much more fun to be a martyr than it is to actually accept that life sucks ass sometimes and move on, abandoning bitterness.

Yea as a Muslim Arab my *DREAM* is to be a martyr. Sorry I don't turn a blind eye to oppression.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona And that's where we see differently. To my the greatest luxury in life would be to be able to live in Palestine without illegal Israeli rule for the rest of my life.

Negative.
A) you have no idea what that life would be like, so you can't really say for sure that's what you want, and B) what we can't have always glitters more brightly than what we possess.