Prolife Or Prochoice

[lizardprincesa]

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Originally Posted by Brittni I think that maybe if people were better educated and had more good moral qualities in themselves (so that they were more compassionate, realistic, and made smart choices - ie: birth control, abstinence if nessasary, etc) then the debate wouldn't be so bad. I am pro-choice, but only for special circumstances like rape, mental disabilities, etc....

Brittni ?? I just started reading this thread, but I knew I should probably stay away. I also told myself I would say nothing if *it* came up. I have a feeling I am going to see *it* mentioned later on in this thread...but I am somewhat surprised you wrote the words, "mental disabilities" in the same sentence as " rape," (although a staggering 80% of women who have Trisomy 21 are sexually abused before age 18, and 50% of men...).....

I am also unsure whether you referred to the prospective mother having a cognitive delay *or* impairment, or whether she had tests (which often show false positives & sometimes cause miscarriages) which told her that her baby might have Trisomy 21, or any host of chromosonal anomalies...

This is not an attack, Brittni. You're a sweet & thoughtful girl. I will read on, although I probably should not, being extra-sensitive in this area...

I wonder if you guys know that many (I don't have the stats in front of me)
so-called *normal* babies are aborted daily, due to false findings through amnio & other tests? Did you also know that if women who are told they are carrying a child who may have Down's *at the rate they are currently doing so,* society will lose a segment of important, special, talented, Human beings. The horrid and severe words, "genetic cleansing" enter my mind & fall from my fingers onto this page like rocks, (I know.)

Brittni, again, I'm not attacking you, sweety. I'm sure I'll find more when I read on.....Oh, if it is the mother we're discussing, as being cognitively delayed, I *still* do not believe abortion is the correct answer....but I am pro-choice, although I cannot conceive, myself, (no pun intended) of ever
aborting a baby. When I was pregnant with my beautiful child, I opted out of all tests. I can't imagine Life without my beautiful, sweet, naughty, stubborn, imaginative, intelligent, little boy.

On I go.... xxxCF, who is, & always will be, sensitive to this topic.

 

[lizardprincesa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark I think it depends on the mentally disabled. I don't know how comfortable I am making a blanket statement that the mentally disabled should automatically be forced to have abortions or be sterilized;

!! I'm glad you aren't comfortable making that statement. Please do not make it.

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I could see that somehow being abused (I'm pro-choice in all senses; you should be allowed to carry to term or have an abortion). ITA that preventive situations should happen before.

Yes. Adoption is another adoption. Also, women who have been cognitively delayed or impaired have successfully raised children.
We all need to open our eyes a bit wider.

 

[lizardprincesa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by melliquor I would never have an abortion in any circumstance even rape. Even if it meant me dying, I would still have the baby and except my death. I believe abortion is murder but that is only my opinion. My belief comes alot from my religion and my belief in God. Please don't take offense. I don't think abortion should be illegal but only for rape and incest. It should never be used as a form of birth control. For the UK, it is very difficult to adopt children. I have been trying for over 3 years and still waiting. I don't want a baby and not at all picky. I am talking about my experience. You can only adopt children overseas if you are rich and offer enough money. I have looked into it. I wish it was easy but it isn't.

I believe exactly as you do, melliquor, for myself.
I pray you soon have your child. You *will*. (I'm not religious, but extremely spiritual, in eclectic ways.)
xxxCF
​

 

[GreekChick]

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Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 Wow- okay, from here on out I wont be arguing anything else about you Because this is the single dumbest thing I have EVER read lol.. Explain to me how if a man kills a woman who is pregnant it is considered a "double homicide"... is the life only sacred if the woman who is carrying it wants it? My son responded to my touch, my voice.. outside voices... his heart beat, he swallowed amniotic fluid, he got the hiccups every day.. he was periodically up from 3am-5am EVERY MORNING...he sucked his thumb, smiled, and even cried in the womb (I have 4d sonogram pictures and videos to prove it.) He fell into periodic hours of sleep as I walked around waitressing and to this day refuses to fall asleep unless Im walking around with him in my arms... he responded to pain... I had an internal heart moniter put on him when he was STILL IN MY WOMB... I was told that he might feel pain because it screwed into the outer layer of skin in his head.. when it was performed he kicked and punched and the sonogram showed that he had actual tears and a frown on his face. Because he was not taking in oxygen and reverting it to carbon dioxide is the single dumbest argument I have ever heard to when a human becomes a human. Really laughable. Really.

Quick question: Why is everything "the single dumbest argument you've ever heard"? You've written that many times, you know "dumb" and "stupid".
I find your arguments and your way of adressing us completely disrespectful, rude, and downright immature. There is no point in debating with you, IMO.

 

[Mizz.Yasmine]

ive always been ''undecided'' on this subject. my son brought so much joy to my life when i was really down. i was in no position to raise a baby and when i found out i was preggers i changed my whole life.

he saved me and his father.

 

[NutMeg]

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Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 Ive made hard decisions too... everyone makes hard decisions.. and im sure there are MANY of yuo who dont agree with my decision to keep my child, unwed, at the age of 21, on financial assistance from the state.

I don't have a problem with your decisions. I respect your decision, I respect the way you feel about your son and your life. My problem with you is that you think you have the right to make my decisions for me. You think you have the right to judge the decisions of others (which is odd seeing as how you've been going on and on about God... And I seem to recall something about God being the only one who can judge). The funny thing is I would probably make the same choice that you did, but you want to take that choice away from me and that is not something I can ever have respect for.

 

[NutMeg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 This entire thread is a joke. the only people here who are "right" are those who are against what I (and others) believe..

I'd also like to point out that you are probably the only pro-lifer on this thread that is being treated in anything resembling a hostile manner. I think the following quotes explain why.

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you preach to me about thinking about other people's feeligns when you're neglecting the feelings of the children who are being murdered violently...

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I think it's "insensative" of many people who kill unborn children.

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Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 My arguments aren't to belittle anyone... I understand.. and I sympathize from where you're coming... and I thank you for the understanding and "human"-like approach to this "argument."... I dont "dislike" or bar any hatred towards people who have abortions.. and I dont believe that THEIR CHOICE is the wrong choice for them in their heads.. I dont "personally" judge anyone or think that their chioce is wrong for what they believe. I just think their choice is wrong for what I believe is right.

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Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 I guess what im trying to do is get people that I dont even know to understand and show compassion and humanity towards a person.

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Im not the one who has to face the Lord for my decision after I die on if I killed me child or not.

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Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 I do not feel the need to "make a decision" for other women.. and I do not judge other women who have abortions..

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Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 Because this is the single dumbest thing I have EVER read lol..

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Because he was not taking in oxygen and reverting it to carbon dioxide is the single dumbest argument I have ever heard to when a human becomes a human. Really laughable. Really.

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Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 Abortion is murder, now matter how you look at it... it's murder.. you can try and come up with every "what if" or excuse in the world to justify it to yourself, and if you really believe that it's excuseable to kill an innocent child just because its not the "right time" to have a baby... then that's your problem. I wont judge others... that's God's job.. not mine..

Sorry this isn't formatted perfectly, I didn't feel like re-writing/copying the post info into every quote. Like I said in my previous post, I respect your choice. I just think that you are being disrespectful, hypocritical, and almost cruel to those of us who have had abortions. You have your opinions yes, but that doesn't give you the right to be judgmental and hurtful. You ask us to try to understand and have compassion for your opinion and situation... How about you try a little of the same for the others in this thread? I apologize if you feel that I am attacking you or calling you names. I think you had some good points and I thank you for sharing them, and for sharing your story. I know you feel passionate about the rights of the unborn, but I feel pretty passionate about defending some of the ladies on this board whom I care about and whom you have been accusing of some pretty terrible things.

Specktra is not a place for vitriol, for personal attacks, for judgment and hurtful attitudes. It is a place for sharing a love of makeup, for discussing sensitive topics with interest, intelligence, passion, and compassion. It is a place for people to come and know that they are among people who care about them, to know that they are supported in all parts of their lives. It is a place where even if we disagree we can still be kind. Its a place where we can be opinionated and argue (and some of us are damn good at arguing) and still get along. This is not a place for hatred or a lack of understanding. I love this board, and I hate to see threads turn like this. Not all of this past paragraph is directed at you. I just wanted to clarify what this place means to me.

Just to clarify my position (because I can't remember if I've posted here yet and after searching through the thread for all of the above quotes I don't feel like going through again), I am not pro-abortion. I don't like, it upsets me and I wish it didn't happen so much. But you have my permission to hit me before I start judging others and trying to take their ability to control their own body away from them. I think having an abortion causes a lot of pain for a lot of women, and I think they need compassion far more than heartless rhetoric.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[ratmist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardprincesa I wonder if you guys know that many (I don't have the stats in front of me) so-called *normal* babies are aborted daily, due to false findings through amnio & other tests? Did you also know that if women who are told they are carrying a child who may have Down's *at the rate they are currently doing so,* society will lose a segment of important, special, talented, Human beings. The horrid and severe words, "genetic cleansing" enter my mind & fall from my fingers onto this page like rocks, (I know.)

On the other hand, there are a lot of children that are dumped for adoption - there's no other word for it really - when their parents find they aren't perfectly normal. I.e., when the children are found to have special needs as a result of mental or physical disabilities.

My father worked with a lot of these children. Their parents just left them to be adopted or fostered - even though statistically that was so unlikely to happen - because they didn't know how to handle it, or didn't have knowledge of support groups they could turn to, couldn't afford the medical costs that came with some of the kids (spina bifida in particular), etc.

Not all parents do this, I hasten to add, but I do think it's fair for someone to decide to abort if there is a statistical likelihood that the baby is going to have severe physical or mental problems. It is not a decision to be taken lightly by any means, but equally, it's a gray area when it comes to morality. I don't think adding morality to the subject makes it any easier for anyone to decide if they're going to keep or abort their pregnancy on the basis of medical tests that aren't always completely accurate.

It's a tough thing. Sometimes the more we know through medical science, the harder it gets to make the right decision for one's self.
Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardprincesa Oh, if it is the mother we're discussing, as being cognitively delayed, I *still* do not believe abortion is the correct answer....but I am pro-choice, although I cannot conceive, myself, (no pun intended) of ever aborting a baby. When I was pregnant with my beautiful child, I opted out of all tests. I can't imagine Life without my beautiful, sweet, naughty, stubborn, imaginative, intelligent, little boy. On I go.... xxxCF, who is, & always will be, sensitive to this topic.

I opted for all the tests (dunno about amnio yet because it hasn't been offered to me yet) because we have physical disabilities in my family, and I wanted to know what I'm signing up for, so to speak.

If the Downs and Trisomy tests had come back as "High Risk", I don't know what I would've done, but we would've been offered the abnormality scan, which we were having anyway due to other physical disabilities in my family. Unless we found some kind of mortally fatal physical disability on the screen (i.e. anencephaly), I would not have wanted to abort. Equally though, that would be my choice, and I would never put pressure on anyone else to choose the way I would choose.

And of course, most chromosomal disabilities won't show up on that screen, unless they have physical repercussions that could be picked up - but even so, that's not easy to find on the screen, mistakes can be made, etc.

Being pregnant these days is scarier than ever. My mother in law clucks a lot about how in her day, they didn't know anything really, and it was easier to enjoy the pregnancy as a result.

 

[ratmist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizz.Yasmine ive always been ''undecided'' on this subject. my son brought so much joy to my life when i was really down. i was in no position to raise a baby and when i found out i was preggers i changed my whole life. he saved me and his father.

That is really, really beautiful. I just thought I'd say that.

I'm glad it worked out for you.

 

[lizardprincesa]

ratmist, may you enjoy your pregnancy (may those hormones behave!) & I wish you, & any other expectant moms, a healthy wonderful pregnancy.
May your babe bring you Joy and fulfillment!
xxxCherylFaith
​

 

[SkylarV217]

Thank you ladies for sharing your opinions. As I stated before Abortion is a topic you stay away from where I am from, I have only ever known people that we Pro-Life. I am from the bible belt and all. Personally after having my son and knowing him, I know I will never change my stance. I feel abortion is wrong b/c I personally Believe life begins at conception. My beliefs also allow me to accept every women despite our varying choices and beliefs, b/c my belief system is about a God that teaches love an tolerance for all b/c judgment is his and his alone. I suppose in the end Every person will do what they feel is right for them. I just hope we may all have a little more understanding of each other. =) You ladies are all amazing and i truly respect your weather i agree with you or not.

 

[S.S.BlackOrchid]

*poof*

 

[static_universe]

I am anti-abortion, but pro-choice. That's really the best way I can think to say it. I personally believe abortion is wrong and will never have one (except rape or something D: ) but it's not my place to tell anyone else that they shouldn't have an abortion.

 

[S.S.BlackOrchid]

*poof*

 

[reverieinbflat]

Although I believe I'll love my future children with all of my heart, I know that having a child now would mean a disastrous life for that baby and myself. I am truly not strong enough to finish school, work, and raise a baby all at the same time. I applaud a woman that even manages a family and one of those things.

Pro-choice means that I can have a plan that I can stick to.

Call me selfish, but I want a life that is productive. I want a life that promotes success for my future children.

 

[pumpkincat210]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindas1983 I would say i'm pro choice with some exceptions. It sickens me to know that there are a few people too many people out there that use abortion as a form of birth control and are on there 5th and 6th abortions these people should be ashamed of themselves and in my eyes steralised (i know this is harsh but so is not using free birth control and then expecting your government to pick up your abortion tab, this is the case in the mainland uk)

If they start sterilizing people what comes next? Genetic testing to see if you are a carrier for a deadly disease -and then sterilizing you because of that? Most women do not have 5 and 6 abortions nor do most women use it as birth control.
Involuntary sterilization would make a lot of people more violent and I am almost positive you would see the crime rate go up.

 

[Rennah]

I am:
Pro-Life
Pro-Contraception
Pro-Sex Ed

Hilly, watch this:

YouTube - Every Sperm is Sacred {Monty Python's Meaning of Life}

from Monty Python's The Meaning of Life

lol!

 

[stronqerx]

prolife..because I have my own opinions, Feelings, spirtual thoughts about it...buttt i don't think it's correct for anybody to say you can't have a choice. Who am i, you're average christian young lady, to say wow that's so wrong, blah blah, 'damn you to hell'...i know better. I am no one to judge, if i judge another human being i might as well judge myself. Obviously, we all have our opinions on it, i mean the thread did ask for them right? Lets just respect each others opinions. Believe me in my heart i am very strong opinionated on this issue, but as much as i am, i can not get all rallied up and start dissin` other ppls opinion. That's it =)

 

[user79]

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Originally Posted by stronqerx prolife..because I have my own opinions, Feelings, spirtual thoughts about it...buttt i don't think it's correct for anybody to say you can't have a choice.

That means you're actually prochoice.


It irks me somehow that people always mix up the definitions. Pro-choice does not mean you support or would opt for an abortion yourself. It means that the decision of whether or not to abort remains with the biological mother, not the state, and that abortions are legally available to those who choose to do it. It does not mean you would ever have an abortion yourself.

 

[TwiggyPop]

I'm really disgusted by these types of discussions, I got so angry within the first page that I had to click away and click back just to say my own thoughts. I seriously HATE it when people try to tell people WHY they are making the decisions they are making. Do you live everybody elses life? Then how else would you know why they do the things they do? Everybody has a completely different thought process which is why topics like these get so heated so who are you to say what is and what isn't?
Never assume why people do the things they do. You should never assume anything, it just makes an ASS out of U and ME.