Pondering Racial Connotations of "Lightful"

[macslut]

This is the way I see it. First, wow, go away for a day and all sorts of things happen.

When people see racist aspects of everything, it degrades true acts of racism. There are people out there who really don't care what color someone (I am in this group) is because we all look pretty much alike underneath. Racism disgusts me. It is unintelligent, unclassy, and not evolved thinking. I also think the concept of race in itself is used so people don't have to think. That disgusts me too. I really don't understand how someone can use the color of skin to judge anyone. I have been in the Women of Color thread and to be completely honest, I have seen it there. Individuals judging on the basis of skin color. Sorry, but I don't get it.

Someone mentioned "white supremecy" (I apologize for not knowing who.). Try coming and living this socially constructed idea of white girl's life for a week and you will find out what hard is. Being the socially constructed idea of white didn't save me from much. But I choose not to wallow in my hardship. It has made me stronger and given me purpose. If you have had a tough life, I am sorry and I would love to hug you and pray for you, but you can't let it overtake you. You have to fight. I don't respect victims.

If you want to glow from the inside, have a sweet spirit and a good and loving heart. Because there is no amount of makeup or skincare that can erase a bad heart and spirit. (Oh, and drink your water and take your vitamins.)

 

[Macnarsandlove]

Long before "Lightful" hit the web there have been connotations within the US and skin color and being black. I knew it what it was for since seeing it on the Korean mac site. I can understand how it’s looked at first but this thread was getting ugly. But unfortunately race does come up a lot and at least its being discussed. That's just my 2 cents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyperRealGurl I don’t think cosmetic lines ignore women of color... people of all races stuggle with many products. Finding shades that match, finidng colors that compliments their skintones or whatever the case is. So this does not just apply to women of color. We have so many women out there that has very fair skin that goes through the same issues with finiding products that work for them just as much as a women of color, really im speaking for all races.. I dont think the cosmetic industry puts products out there and are like (oh we are only marketing lighter skin people) The cosmetic industy is always putting out new prodcuts , new shades, new concepts, they rely on the consumers input to bring in better products. i would go on but Jamie and Sharyn basicly said what i wanted to say

It seems a little late to chime in but hyperRealGurl your trippin. Have you ever seen dior, neutrogena, almy, bourgois, urban decay...etc dont have anything above a nc/nw30. WOC/paler ppl being ignored is a problem. It's hard to ignor if your confronted with it all the time. My best friend is a nw5 if that and I'm nc45. Thats why the VGIV campain is so popular. Some execs had to sit around and say to themselves lets not make that color (what ever that might be). Those companies pay a lot of $$ for firms to conduct thier market research and they dont believe its viable or thats not the target consumer they want. It is definitely deliberate.

 

[GreekChick]

They probably didn't choose to feature a black woman for the promo add of "Lightful" because then people would think to themselves the very same thing we're debating about this very moment: That A black person should should look more like a white person. Now this...this is where the could have been a connotation.
Seriously, you guys, please don't try to turn "Lightful" into a racial issue, or any issue at all when there simply isn't one.
Do you know what else is coming out? A collection called "Glam Gams". And what will this collection feature? A range of bronzing sprays, ranging from medium dark to very dark. Is there a racial issue there? No.
"Lightful" and "Glam Gams" are 2 spring collections that in my opinion, balance eachother out. During the Spring 2007 Fashion shows, both super pale Elizabeth-ean style and super dark skin was showcased. Can we just embrace this and be thankful that for once, all colors are considered "fashionable" and the need to change oneself isn't that important anymore?

 

[IcesUltraGlam7]

This is what it boils down to.This lightful collection was tooken the wrong way.I think it's meant for woman who have sunspots,red scars rosacia and like myself microdermabrasions via hormonal/ Sunspots.I dont think MAC perposly released this thinking it will "lighten" dark skin,to me that doesn't even make sense being that i've studied the skin and creams that go with the skin.To lighten dark skin would take a cosmetic procedure not an over the counter cream.
I think this topic was tooken way out of context and it happens frequently when MAC does small promo releases meant for 75 % of everyones skin color.
I also would like to add everytime I step into MAC I end up spending 150 - 300 dollars and yet they can't find room to book me for a cosmetic makeover? why ? because everyone else who spent 45 or more booked makeovers before I did.I didn't see just white people in the makeover chairs either.I'm not complaining but heck they never help me out or ask me if I want to try a new look.Another thing is going off topic just because i'm wearing a little makeup and I'm a nice looking gal I get less help from makeupartist..They dont think to think I may wan't to try a different look.
Another thing is MAC isn't the only retailer for cosmetics..If your a Color of Beauty Mary Kay has a great line and releases a full color look for Beautie's of Color.
I can agree that MAC does get a little racial,Like what was said earlier there should of been a black doll release also I would of boughten it and the barbie colors were quite light.
"Baloonacy is next I'm excited about it".
I'm not excited about the dark discolorations on my skin it takes me 5 foundations in a month to find a good one now my next purchase is gonna be MUFE I hope this works for my NC 30 35 dry,micordermabrasioned skintone.Also sometimes I dont think I'm an NC 30 I have alot of yellow tones and my skin is very dry.
I guess my point is we all have our differences with MAC. Why did I spend over 150 each time I've been to mac or More money atleast for the last few month 3 times a week.I've spent alot there and yet have not had one makeover or been helped about colors or anything.
Could it be that they think I know what I'm doing with my makeup already????

 

[VeronikaJ]

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[VeronikaJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smith130 Long before "Lightful" hit the web there have been connotations within the US and skin color and being black. I knew it what it was for since seeing it on the Korean mac site. I can understand how it’s looked at first but this thread was getting ugly. But unfortunately race does come up a lot and at least its being discussed. That's just my 2 cents. It seems a little late to chime in but hyperRealGurl your trippin. Have you ever seen dior, neutrogena, almy, bourgois, urban decay...etc dont have anything above a nc/nw30. WOC/paler ppl being ignored is a problem. It's hard to ignor if your confronted with it all the time. My best friend is a nw5 if that and I'm nc45. Thats why the VGIV campain is so popular. Some execs had to sit around and say to themselves lets not make that color (what ever that might be). Those companies pay a lot of $$ for firms to conduct thier market research and they dont believe its viable or thats not the target consumer they want. It is definitely deliberate.

I can't understand this comment. What are you trying to say?

 

[Dark_Phoenix]

I don't see it as racist.

I think it's MAC trying to do good buissness and capitalize on the skin lightening market. I'm N3 but have discoloration on my cheeks and I already ordered the Lightful Essence. I'm Bahraini/Italian American and have really uneven, super pale skintone (and loved Diorsnow until it started to make my skin burn on application). Honestly, I don't know any girls who use lightening products to look "whiter".

Anyone remember the Porcelain collection by Shiseido?
Lovely foundation and other products marketed towards the less pigment blessed girls. I guess I see them the same way.
Brands trying to give all consumers what they want.

 

[Macnarsandlove]

In response to veronikaj: I was saying that the lightful ads are NOT racist. Its just skincare. Then discussed the previous comment from hyperrealgurl. Cosmetics companies chose who they want to be thier customers. Its not the other way around as most would like to believe.

 

[Dark_Phoenix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smith130 I was saying that the lightful ads are NOT racist. Its just skincare. Then discussed the previous comment from hyperrealgurl. Cosmetics companies chose who they want to be thier customers. Its not the other way around as most would like to believe.

Who are you responding to?

I was trying to address the main topic. Not yours in particular.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smith130 Cosmetics companies chose who they want to be thier customers. Its not the other way around as most would like to believe.

How is this a problem? All companies choose their target demographic... MAC is in the business of making MONEY, not about making every shade of skin under the sun happy. And that involves catering to the majority.

I work in cable advertising. Know what I get to do? Divide up Los Angeles by Race, Ethnicity, Income, Education, etc etc etc. We spend hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not more i just know it's a LOT) on reasearch on the topic telling us who lives where in Los Angeles.

Why?

So when company X comes to us and says they want to advertise their product to Y demographic, we can tell them where in LA, Y demographic is living, so we can air that commercial on those TV's in Y demographics livingroom.

What you see on your TV isn't random chance. Every commercial on TV is carefully placed to get maximum reach to the people that that product is most likeley to appeal to.

Is this racist? No. It's business.

Range's of color are not availible because they are not profitable. Being a minority skin tone sucks, I know (I'm part of the sickly pale group, but i'll take young looking pale skin, over cancer and a tan, thanks.). Your skin tone gets ignored because the bean counters didn't think the margin of profit was large enough (or even there at all) to invest in it.

Still upset? Make your own skin line then. If you can convince an investor that it will turn a profit, the money will be there. But somehow I doubt any of us who are on the fringe dark, or light, are the first people to think of this.

Until then, if your like me, you'll water down your foundation to get as sheer a coverage as possible, because nothing out of the bottle works well enough.

 

[hyperRealGurl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smith130 In response to veronikaj: I was saying that the lightful ads are NOT racist. Its just skincare. Then discussed the previous comment from hyperrealgurl. Cosmetics companies chose who they want to be thier customers. Its not the other way around as most would like to believe.

For starters: Im not trippin

that is not 100% true for all cosmetic companies.. I hardly think that every single cosmetic company out there strickly targets the type of customers they want buying their products.

And if u truely feel that way YOU as a consumer can always send ur input or dislikes to the company to help make a change.

And yes i have seen all the brands u so kindly listed and since im NC40 while using MAC i run into a lot of issues with matching my shade when trying ti use other Brands.. Am i going to make a deal out of it? Naw not really you know why b.c i go with what works for me and if i am unable to use a certain brand b.c the company doesnt carry my shade am i going to let it upset me? No.. but you know thats me and i can only speak for myself.

And if for some strange reason i want to use a certain Brand or line and they dont carter to my shade, then i will send a very nice email to that compnay asking why... asking what can be done to bring in such colors.

But until then ill custom blend my fndn like i usually do

 

[Beauty Mark]

I think the most telling aspect to look at is that article in the Beauty of Color forum. If white people are predominantly buying foundation, it makes sense for the companies to target them. Sucks for the rest of us, but it does make sense from purely financial background. Because Asians, according to that study, were most concerned about their skin and keeping it healthy, whatever this product is probably was targeted to Asia first, because it's going to give the appearance of healthy skin.

I know some people get tired of hearing that they should do something about it, but money/potential customers speak volumes for these companies. Most companies don't care about much more than expanding business and making money. If they think that they can get the business of x group, they're going to do their darnest to make sure that group is included.

When I heard the term "Lightful", I thought of spring, of floaty things, of youth, not of color. I think that's what they were going for, promoting younger looking skin and not having heavy foundation on to combat discoloration.

I have no statistics to back it up, but I'm going to guess most models are white. That's what I've observed. That's more of a problem with agencies and our standards of beauty than with MAC. For me, what would have been a more effective ad would be a "Before" and "After" of the model. That wouldn't be fitting for the site, but I'd like to see allegedly how effective that stuff is.

If MAC were marketing skin bleach to totally erase your skin color (and yes, the stuff exists; I knew woman who mourned letting someone do that, to erase her deep olive skin), I think that would be perpetuating the white=best myth. However, erasing discoloration of your skin I think most people try to do.

 

[honyd]

............ i really didnt want to get in on this but i just cant help but say that imo... people in general tend to make a big deal out of nothing when there is something TO WHOMEVER truly deeper behind it in thier minds(THATS THIER OPINION). Im sorry but im white german and irish and i lived in a very mixed community and i was more judged by other races than i even gave a second thought to it. That white bitch..ot that spanish chick (even tho im not spanish).. when they dont even kno me. (JUST A LIFE EXPERIENCE) imo SOME people of color are more racist than anything. AND IN THAT I MEAN NOT JUST TOWARDS WHITE (AND CAN BE WITHIN OWN RACE) (LIGHT SKINNED DARKSKINNED ASIAN -KOREANS WHATEVER) This is not about the makeup line this is something deeper.. something that stems from self issues( FRUSTRATED BY LACK OF PRODUCT AVAILIBILTY OR MARKETING FOR THIER RACE OR GENDER). So maybe they read into it a little deeper........ There are plenty of lines that carry things for woc.. fashion fair for example...designed for black women... beautiful line...whitening creams was there best seller??? I worked for Lancome...tanning lotions was one of our best sellers?? i love to get a tan..not cause i want to be another color but cause i feel i look healther when i have a little glow to my skin . So its not a racial issue for a line to advertise something they feel the majority of the ppeople are looking for ... in this i mean ALL WOMEN of color are looking for something to brighten thier skin...take spots away...whatever. If thier are issues with these lines than move on to one more suitable...but dont make a race issue out of it. (JUST AND EXAMPLE) would be like whites complaining about bet (black entertainment television)(which i watch).. NOw if WHOEVER had persay wet (white entertainment televison) they would be ??? racists and it would be taken off the air in a min. things in this world will never be wholly racial. Thats a fact. Its called demographics and marketing. unfrtnly its all about money. what sells.

 

[Macnarsandlove]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyperRealGurl For starters: Im not trippin that is not 100% true for all cosmetic companies.. I hardly think that every single cosmetic company out there strickly targets the type of customers they want buying their products. And if u truely feel that way YOU as a consumer can always send ur input or dislikes to the company to help make a change. And yes i have seen all the brands u so kindly listed and since im NC40 while using MAC i run into a lot of issues with matching my shade when trying ti use other Brands.. Am i going to make a deal out of it? Naw not really you know why b.c i go with what works for me and if i am unable to use a certain brand b.c the company doesnt carry my shade am i going to let it upset me? No.. but you know thats me and i can only speak for myself. And if for some strange reason i want to use a certain Brand or line and they dont carter to my shade, then i will send a very nice email to that compnay asking why... asking what can be done to bring in such colors. But until then ill custom blend my fndn like i usually do

^^^Yes they do. Would a 50-60 y.o. WASP be more inclined to buy a lipstick from an ad with nice gwenth paltrow (estee lauder) or a 7ft trani named rupaul (VG1)? You be the judge. Thats good business. It just makes sense. For the same reason that you dont see nascar commercials in the north (simple comparison but easy to understand) because its just not as popular as in the south.

I dont give a rats butt if they dont make it in my color. All that means is that they dont want my nc45 money

 

[hyperRealGurl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smith130 ^^^Yes they do. Would a WASP be more inclined to buy a lipstick from an ad with nice gwenth paltrow (estee lauder) or a 7ft trani named rupaul (VG1)? You be the judge. Thats good business. It just makes sense. For the same reason that you dont see nascar commercials in the north (simple comparison but easy to understand) because its just not as popular as in the south. I dont give a rats butt if they dont make it in my color. All that means is that they dont want my nc45 money

i still disagree.. Sorry but that my Op
And honestly i dont buy prodcuts based on their ad campaign weather it be nice Gwenth or Rupaul as u stated if the colors dont appeal to me or the shades dont comp. my skintone then ill pass on both, no matter what age i were to be 20-30-40-50-60- But i cant speak for everyone else

 

[hyperRealGurl]

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[Candace]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye Can I just say every single one of you is crazy and I am the only sane person who is posting on this topic? LOLOL OK that being said. I totally understand what Me220 is getting at. Why did they choose a white woman to show glowing skin. Why not a black a woman? Does a black woman not have glowing skin? And no the topic isn't about race as much as it is the question: Why? And I think the only people who are making it a racial issue is those denouncing the simple question that is being asked. Which is weird hearing it from me. What is the modern version of beauty? The standard? What is it in the industry? I have to agree that asians have been using skin lightening products for years and years because their ideal version of beauty is very very pale skin. (Thanks for bringing it up Marty!). But in America what is the ideal version of beauty? Why doesn't MAC use more black models? Does mac not view color as gorgeous? It's not race here- now it's merely perspective. Just my thoughts.

As far as the models/spokeswomen they do use, it's only been what singers who have hot records at the time? Why not any W.O.C models in the campaigns?

 

[Macnarsandlove]

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[honyd]

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[Macnarsandlove]

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