Talk to me.

[Winthrop44]

In reading through this thread and thinking about some other posts elsewhere I'm almost getting the idea that the "Thanks" button is causing more problems than it's worth, lol. Maybe it's just me but it seems like thanking someone is being interpreted as ganging up on others, cliques, etc.? And having someone thank you is being equated with acceptance/popularity? Maybe it's not so much the Thanks button but the Thanks stats under our avatars that leads to this kind of thinking. I thought the original intent of the Thanks button was to save server space and avoid a thread full of posts that just said thanks. Do we really need those stats?

 

[TISH1124]

That and the Clearance Bin seem to be the top issues on this thread

 

[rbella]

Glad the site is back up, Janice.

As far as enabling goes, it is interesting to see opinions change so rapidly on this topic. One day the forum is full of enablers, the next day, when everyone is so friendly, happy and no petty arguments have taken place, the forum is such a happy place where we should all be responsible for our own decisions.

Yes, this is true. I do believe that you cannot be made to buy something, however, I also believe that you can be made to feel like quite the douchebag for not liking a product that a group of popular posters have decided is "awesome".

For those who disagree, that is fine. Please remember the words you chose to use in this thread when you argue to the contrary in about a month because someone pissed you off......It starts becoming hypocritical.

 

[LeeleeBell]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TISH1124 That and the Clearance Bin seem to be the top issues on this thread

I don't know if that's true IMO, I think the people engaging in the cliqueness would just go back to 'showing their loyalty' (name calling and/or chastising people for having an opinion unlike their 'group'). I have seen that behavior here with/without using the "thanking" function...That said, I don't generalize this behavior as something the whole board has become; I don't read enough posts to make such a generalization. But I have seen it in some "hot topics" I've participated in/skimmed through.

But overall I think this is such a great resource, full of some great people... so happy to have the board back

 

[rbella]

Great point, Leelee.

Go to page 31 of the Magic, Mirth, and Mystery colour story. It is a PERFECT example of people acting like a clique and being snarky simply because others stated their opinions.

Instead of trying to be aware of their actions and/or words, it has been decided that underhanded comments and "eyerolling" is a much more productive way to deal with things.

 

[TISH1124]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeleeBell I don't know if that's true IMO, I think the people engaging in the cliqueness would just go back to 'showing their loyalty' (name calling and/or chastising people for having an opinion unlike their 'group'). I have seen that behavior here with/without using the "thanking" function...That said, I don't generalize this behavior as something the whole board has become; I don't read enough posts to make such a generalization. But I have seen it in some "hot topics" I've participated in/skimmed through.

I agree...and you are probably correct.....

 

[Sass]

People know what the "Thank You" hack is to be used for and should use it accordingly, but something as broad as this hack allows for unintentional and intentional drama / controversy. It is the perfect tool to use when you have been given great advice and it is also a great tool to get back at someone who pissed you off. But then again, members should do the right thing and try not to encourage outright conflict and unconstructive criticism with this tool that was implemented to actually bring more credibility and morale to this community. The hack itself it not to blame here. A gun doesn't shoot people, people shoot people. *shrugs*

The Thank You hack is, overall, useless in my opinion because it takes away from Specktra's or any community's post count (speaking from an Admin's point of view). Most members (including lurking members) are more likely not to post because they can just click that Thank You button and voila! instead of adding input that can probably potentially add more value to the conversation that is taking place. The number of posts and the number of thank yous all take up the same space as each other on the server so it does not cause server load any issues. I just wish the Coder of the thank you hack could have made it more sophisticated than it is via admin options. I'm just saying that I'd rather have the post count (the content, no matter how many words is in it) if I wanted to save space on my server, but that decision is up the owner of this site.

Whatever the Admin decides I'll support because I can surely sympathize with her. Her job is not an easy one.

 

[purrtykitty]

TBH, I like the "Thank You" button and use it to backtrack on my own posts to figure out what has been most helpful and to see the responses to my posts. It's so much easier than digging through the threads and trying to remember where my post is.

 

[LeeleeBell]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrtykitty TBH, I like the "Thank You" button and use it to backtrack on my own posts to figure out what has been most helpful and to see the responses to my posts. It's so much easier than digging through the threads and trying to remember where my post is.

I like it too, for the same reasons, but also because if there was no thank you button, there'd be *who knows how many* people feeling like they have to reply "thank you, that was so helpful"=SO many more posts to read if you want to see specific posts in a thread/discussion or swatches....It's a quick way to show appreciation without filling up a thread.

 

[Sass]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrtykitty TBH, I like the "Thank You" button and use it to backtrack on my own posts to figure out what has been most helpful and to see the responses to my posts. It's so much easier than digging through the threads and trying to remember where my post is.

That works too, but I find Specktra very slow at times and then the board goes offline and then I'm left with nothing. I just take notes (copy and paste stuff into a spreadsheet) or if I'm in a hurry just paste in into notepad and save and I also subscribe to the thread that has the info in it (I don't subscribe to the threads with tons of posts in them though) to find what I'm looking for if I need to.

I can't wait for the techy issues with the site to be over just for a little while.

 

[Janice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sass I can't wait for the techy issues with the site to be over just for a little while.

^ Trust me, I can't either. This has been the most stressful week for me so far this year. I'm looking at another large monthly chunk being taken out of my personal finances since we are facing another server upgrade for the site and a forum software upgrade (which coincidentally they overhauled and is now 4x more expensive, yuck!). Thankfully many have supported the site this year through premium member subscriptions and I was able to use those funds to pay for the emergency support needed this week on a few major issues that popped up while we were working on the site and they will also partially cover the new license. The downtime has just killed me, as a fellow admin you have to know that feeling in your stomach that just won't go away when things are broken. Just sharing some of the issues on my mind that has made this one of the more stressful weeks I've had.

Regarding the Thanks! button, this one add on actually turned this community around. It helped the majority of our community who lurks become active and engage with the site even though though they choose to not post. The weakness to the add on is that is can be exploited leaving the true meaning of the Thanks! watered down due to overuse, "number padding", or using it to "back up" things people say in a heated situation to one another. The true intention of the add on is one of convenience and allowing those who choose to quietly enjoy the site a way of involvement and participation.

The off topic chatter in color stories threads could be a bit daunting for most, and if conversation veers seriously off topic then it might be best for it to be taken to the off topic sections of the board like Chatter (or whatever forum is relevant). This serves two purposes, to keep some sense of balance in the threads, and also to generate more discussion in the areas it could benefit. I have a feeling this would also impact and most likely lessen the "clique" feeling that some people have expressed they feel.

The 'enabling' issue really boggles me, but thanks to rBella's comments in this thread I am seeing where the true issue might be. Thanks for sharing your insight on the situation, it helped me understand what the core problem is coming into play with the 'enabling' comments.

Thank you also to everyone who has PM'd me. Things have been super hectic so I apologize I haven't gotten back to you yet. I do read your messages and they do have weight so please don't feel like you wasted your time contacting me.

While I have other things on my plate on the moment that require my attention I am interested in us working these issues out as a community. If you feel you have something to add to this conversation, please do.

 

[latinalovesmac]

"Regarding the Thanks! button, this one add on actually turned this community around. It helped the majority of our community who lurks become active and engage with the site even though though they choose to not post. The weakness to the add on is that is can be exploited leaving the true meaning of the Thanks! watered down due to overuse, "number padding", or using it to "back up" things people say in a heated situation to one another. The true intention of the add on is one of convenience and allowing those who choose to quietly enjoy the site a way of involvement and participation."

Thanks for all your hardwork and sacrifice. The thanks buttons were one of the major reasons I joined Specktra. I love being able to show people how much I appreciate their contribution without having to actually say it. I love talking about makeup and the FOTD make my day. People are so talented. I am so glad Specktra is back up and running.

 

[MzzRach]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrtykitty TBH, I like the "Thank You" button and use it to backtrack on my own posts to figure out what has been most helpful and to see the responses to my posts. It's so much easier than digging through the threads and trying to remember where my post is.

I use the "Thanks" feature for exactly the same reasons - it's really helpful when tracking threads you have posted in.

Thank you, Janice, for all your hard work on the site. I am so sorry things have been so problematic on the back end, lately. I know what that stress is like, I deal with that all the time in my day to day work.

 

[Sass]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janice ^ Trust me, I can't either. This has been the most stressful week for me so far this year. I'm looking at another large monthly chunk being taken out of my personal finances since we are facing another server upgrade for the site and a forum software upgrade (which coincidentally they overhauled and is now 4x more expensive, yuck!). Thankfully many have supported the site this year through premium member subscriptions and I was able to use those funds to pay for the emergency support needed this week on a few major issues that popped up while we were working on the site and they will also partially cover the new license. The downtime has just killed me, as a fellow admin you have to know that feeling in your stomach that just won't go away when things are broken. Just sharing some of the issues on my mind that has made this one of the more stressful weeks I've had.

When I was on a shared server I was sick all of the time because it would go down several times a day and sharing with other sites made the server slow down too. I pay for a dedicated server and ummmm now I'm sick from paying the bills to have it. LOL! But hey, I'm a happier and broker person for it. No worries. I totally understand.

OK going to see how much it will cost me to become a premium member around here.

Do you what you can and please try not to stress out about it too much. Sending lots o' hugs your way Janice. *hugs*

 

[rbella]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janice ^ Trust me, I can't either. This has been the most stressful week for me so far this year. I'm looking at another large monthly chunk being taken out of my personal finances since we are facing another server upgrade for the site and a forum software upgrade (which coincidentally they overhauled and is now 4x more expensive, yuck!). Thankfully many have supported the site this year through premium member subscriptions and I was able to use those funds to pay for the emergency support needed this week on a few major issues that popped up while we were working on the site and they will also partially cover the new license. The downtime has just killed me, as a fellow admin you have to know that feeling in your stomach that just won't go away when things are broken. Just sharing some of the issues on my mind that has made this one of the more stressful weeks I've had.

This is another thing that I take issue with. How in the world can people complain about a FREE SITE that they get a ton of useful information from? I cannot believe the bitching and complaining that will go on about the site being down from people, including long standing members, who still have yet to dedicate 1 dime to help keep it going.

Then when it comes back on, it's "praise God, Specktra is back". I agree, I'm happy to see it back, but for the love of all that is holy, please keep your comments with respect to your frustrations regarding site technical difficulties to this forum only. It pisses me off greatly to see non-paying members, or any member for that matter, bitching about it on blogs, facebook and twitter. In my opinion, and keep in mind, it is my opinion, I don't think you really have gained any right to complain about the site's technical issues unless you have supported it. JMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janice Regarding the Thanks! button, this one add on actually turned this community around. It helped the majority of our community who lurks become active and engage with the site even though though they choose to not post. The weakness to the add on is that is can be exploited leaving the true meaning of the Thanks! watered down due to overuse, "number padding", or using it to "back up" things people say in a heated situation to one another. The true intention of the add on is one of convenience and allowing those who choose to quietly enjoy the site a way of involvement and participation.

I agree with PurrtyKitty and her use of the thanks. It is helpful for backtracking. But, it has really become a guage of popularity, unfortunately. I mean, when you are "thanking" people for "I agree" and "Werd" and other smileys, it is very transparent that you are either trying to up your ranking or back up your "friends". I used to do it b/c I felt bad if someone "thanked" me for something like "lol". I'd feel obligated to thank their very next post. It's quite silly, actually. But, I do believe that it is a great way for non-participating posters to get their feet wet and contribute. I don't think it should go away b/c it is abused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janice The off topic chatter in color stories threads could be a bit daunting for most, and if conversation veers seriously off topic then it might be best for it to be taken to the off topic sections of the board like Chatter (or whatever forum is relevant). This serves two purposes, to keep some sense of balance in the threads, and also to generate more discussion in the areas it could benefit. I have a feeling this would also impact and most likely lessen the "clique" feeling that some people have expressed they feel.

I totally am guitly of this. Looking back I now see how this can be so dang annoying, especially to those not involved. Then, it adds about 50 extra pages that no one wants to read and then someone asks a question that was answered in those 50 pages and gets in trouble for not reading the past 50 pages. So, I also apologize for doing this. I have since tried to limit my "chatter" to the chatter and oasis sections of the site.

I also agree that when users "chat" amongst each other with "inside" jokes, it makes outsiders feel uncomfortable and lessens the liklihood of newer members joining the conversation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janice The 'enabling' issue really boggles me, but thanks to rBella's comments in this thread I am seeing where the true issue might be. Thanks for sharing your insight on the situation, it helped me understand what the core problem is coming into play with the 'enabling' comments.

Thank you for recognizing it and not dismissing it like so many have.

I think ultimately things will be fine here. I think a few tweeks here and there might help, but this still remains the best makeup board available to makeup lovers. Thanks for all you do, Janice, and I hope your stress lessens over time.

 

[capmorlovesmac]

It really worries me that this discussion already led to users being afraid of posting too much chatter in the Color Collections threads.

I personally love how energetic the Color Collection threads are. Without the off-topic I wouldn't have been able to get to know you all better and the chatter to me is still what makes Specktra such a special and warm place you don't find anywhere else.

The idea with a seperate FAQ thread for every collection sounds like a great possibility to collect the often asked questions so that they are easily findable.

Because the discussions are so dynamic it could cause more harm than good to move every chatter that develops from the Color Collections conversations to the chatter forum in maybe even seperate threads. Specktra would lose what essentially connected me with this wonderful place.

 

[Tashona Helena]

^ I can understand how going off topic can be a problem, but I look at it as, this is a forum, people have discussions. The color collection threads have been exciting to me too, even though I don't post in them often. I actually think that it was one of the things that started to get me posting. I didn't see a problem with the off-topic stuff but I can see how some people who aren't used to it can get confused.

At my work us managers have a communication book we use, and when it gets full and people miss stuff we just move it over to the next day or touch base with the SM. How about we have the first post as a FAQ thing/unanswered questions thing? I think having separate sub-forums for each collection to have separate threads might be a little redundant, but the first post thing might work? Then having one person in charge of managing each Color Story Discussion that a person can PM if they're embarrassed of asking a repetitive question? I dunno these are just suggestions from me, I'm sure you girlies will figure it out

And I like the thanks button because it helps me track my posts as well, and I feel like an idiot for just posting "thanks". I've been it in other forums (ppl just posting thanks again and again) and it looks messy. I like it here cause when people actually post instead of just saying thanks I actually like sitting down and reading the whole thread because there's more than just one word but actual input.

 

[rbella]

^^^I totally understand where you are coming from, J. But, if you look at it from the point of view of a user who wants to utilize the site for information, it is a really frustrating thing to have to dig through so many pages of personal talk. I agree, the banter is fun, but what is so wrong with putting it in the "bimbo" section or into the oasis? You still get the benefit of getting to know people and then it really clears up the colour threads.

Either way is fine with me, I just like to look at all sides. I think the colour threads have had a lot of issues for a long time. Unfortunately, leaving it "as is" will likely keep a lot of people from posting, which in turn, is unfair to Janice and the users who come here to utilize Specktra as a makeup resource.

I also see that changing things will upset the current dynamic. However, it will upset the current dynamic that consists of about 20 regular users. Whereas changing the tone could make it more inviting to 100's of users. If you owned the site, which would you prefer?

The majority of the people involved in the chatter "chat" on MSN anyway, so I don't see what the harm of removing unnecessary clutter from the colour threads would be?

Once again, just my opinion. I know not a very popular one and I know I have quite a few people pissed at me, but at this point, I feel as an Advisor it is my duty to look out for Specktra and Janice's best interest. Not my own.

 

[capmorlovesmac]

I understand your points too, D.

My point of view of course it from a user only but I do think that taking away the off-topic would change Specktra because it would harm the natural dynamics in the conversations that make it easy to find new friends here.

If the chatter is moved to certain threads only IMO it would change the spirit in a negative way because more people participate in the Color Collections threads than for example in the bimbo thread. The now funny and welcoming mood of the Color Colletions threads would change.. and I am scared that it wouldn't change in a good way.

To me Specktra is more than just info. It is a warm community that says welcome to everyone. A place to talk about makeup and more and to make friends. There are plenty of other places to find informations about MAC and other brands like other forums and blogs. If Specktra becomes more like other forums there are less reasons to especially join Specktra because it would just be another random forum.

With the sticky collection threads that are already available and new FAQ threads for every collection the information sources about collections would evolve without changing the inviting and warm atmosphere here.

 

[hello_kitty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbella This is another thing that I take issue with. How in the world can people complain about a FREE SITE that they get a ton of useful information from? I cannot believe the bitching and complaining that will go on about the site being down from people, including long standing members, who still have yet to dedicate 1 dime to help keep it going.

People get a sense of "entitlement" when they register on forums... like they have a RIGHT to be there, a RIGHT to do whatever they want, demand what they want, etc. How much of it occurs depends on the forum.

I ran/owned the largest forum for a particular brand/make of car for 3 years, and people's behavior got so bad that my husband and I pulled the plug on the forum. People would break the rules, and get banned, so they would turn around and post up hate pages slandering me and what not. It got to the point that we felt the cost to our personal lives wasn't worth the extra income... all because people were childish and didn't understand that there are no right guaranteeing someone is allowed to visit a privately owned forum.

I'm assuming things are a little better here in specktra, as it's not 20-30 year old boys as the general population, but still... every forum has it's issues.

Do I notice cliques here? Yes. Do I notice people automatically supporting popular girls? Yes. Are the color collection threads a mess with chit chat? Yes. Do people seem to like people who buy everything? Yes.

But in the end, it's ME that decides to log on here several times a day. No one forces someone to visit a forum. This site is a great resource, and I use it at that. If I feel like it's appropriate to post, I do. There's some things I will not post about on this site because I know it'll go against certain people and cause drama. No biggie, my opinion doesn't have to be heard 100% of the time.

I give lots of props to Janice for running a forum of this size, and doing it fairly smoothly! Every web site is going to have technical glitches, and for people to get pissed about it is just uncalled for. I think we all can say we missed the site dearly while it was gone, but I know at least for me, I understood that things can take time to work out and fix. I'd rather wait a week and come back to things operating normal than have spotted access every single day.